A Light In The World
A Light In The World
#81. Mario Bustamante: Latin American History, Retail, And A Better Future
The conversation between Mario and George Ramirez covers various topics, including the importance of self-care, the retail industry, the impact of managers, personal growth, and finding fulfillment in life. They discuss their experiences working in retail, the positive aspects of connecting with customers, and the challenges of metrics-driven environments. They also share personal stories of overcoming obstacles and learning from mistakes. The conversation emphasizes the importance of being true to oneself, following one's passions, and making a positive impact on others. The conversation explores the potential for a more loving and unified world, the current state of global conflicts and power struggles, the impact of historical events on present-day migration issues, and the personal journey of faith and spirituality. The discussion touches on the importance of embracing love and making positive contributions to society, the need to address the root causes of instability in countries, and the skepticism and interpretation of religious texts. The conversation ends with a message of hope and well wishes for the future.
Takeaways
- Self-care is essential in order to effectively help others.
- Managers play a crucial role in the overall experience and morale of employees.
- Mistakes and obstacles are opportunities for growth and learning.
- Being true to oneself and following one's passions leads to fulfillment.
- Making a positive impact on others is a meaningful way to contribute to society. Embrace love and make positive contributions to create a more loving world
- Address the root causes of instability in countries to address migration issues
- Be skeptical and interpret religious texts in a personal and informed manner
- Have hope for a better future and well wishes for personal and professional endeavors
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George Ramirez (00:04.257)
Thanks for having me. Well, thanks for having me, George. It's always a pleasure and I'm very excited about this episode. Yeah, and I know.
George Ramirez (00:25.633)
this is something that we'll probably be doing more than often and I'm excited I actually am really excited just because you have a lot of knowledge and we're both in this situation where we're both just trying to help out the world through conversations I figured that's...
That's one thing I've noticed with running a podcast is conversation can, I think that's really how you start to change the world through conversations like this, getting to know each other, getting to see, even though we might not see eye to eye on everything at the end of the day, it's just coming together and just talking about some of the issues that the world's faced and some of the issues that we face as well too. One of the biggest things that I've noticed is in order to help other people out, you have to help yourself first.
Yes.
George Ramirez (01:17.857)
It's not easy, but it's really effective. One of the greatest things I've ever heard is when you go on an airplane and you hear the stewardess say, make sure you put on your mask first before you put someone else's mask on. And when you apply that to life, a lot of the times, it's true. You have to be in a situation or a position where you're okay first, either your mental health or your physical health, in order to help other people out.
Definitely. I think that that's one of the concepts that I struggled with because I always, I care a lot about people. You know, I love people. And for me, you know, that concept was a difficult thing to comprehend, but it's very true because if you don't help yourself first, you know, how do you expect to help other people? How do you expect to be able to influence them? Cause it goes back to taking your own advice. So I definitely agree with that. Yeah. Nope. and I'm also very excited to see where.
this relationship goes, I know that friendship with you is not...
100 % yeah, so actually first thing I really do want to talk about is retail because that's something we both can relate to
in this kind of transitionary state in our life where we both worked at Whole Foods, an amazing company, obviously every company has its faults, but how was your experience not just at Whole Foods but working in retail? Yeah, so you know back in 2020 when the craziness of the pandemic was happening, you know, I was at the university and of course, you know, being at the university things get expensive and...
George Ramirez (03:11.137)
I needed a job outside of the university because they were giving me limited hours and the first one I stumbled upon was Home Depot. Now...
I was a pretty nervous guy back then. So interviews were always a bit scary. And so when I had to go for my first ever interview outside of a university setting, you know, it was nerve wracking, but I thought about it as a conversation. And when I had that interview and that conversation with that person, we were able to kind of get out and talk about some points. And at the end of it, she was like, I'd like to make you an offer for this job. And.
It was fascinating. So, you know, I got an, a position for appliances, which I thought I was going to be a cashier, but instead I was a salesperson. I was a specialist. So what I got to do is, you know, sell fridges, sell basically a new kitchen for people. And what I liked about that was being able to have conversations that I wouldn't have otherwise, you know, meeting people, being able to see a little bit about their lives and kind of understand, you know, the bigger picture.
And I did that for about, I'd say eight months in that role. And, you know, it had its ups and downs, like anything metrics, all those different aspects I got introduced to. But as a whole, it was a great experience. And ultimately I transferred to a different Home Depot where I was a kitchen designer.
Now I didn't really go all into this role, unfortunately, because I did find another role that I went into. But just the idea of being able to put together kitchens for people, being able to take their ideas, the materials they wanted, you know, have conversations about how their day is going, their pets, everything like that. It made retail fun. Now to say it was perfect. Definitely not, you know, again, as I hit on the metrics and everything, that was one thing that I was like, goodness, I feel all this pressure and I'm not feeling all the help in the world, you know.
George Ramirez (04:58.241)
But I made a lot of, you know, good coworker friends, good relationships there, you know? And so I appreciated that. And from then, you know, from Home Depot, I worked for QuickTrip, which is where I got the see you later, you know, how you doing all those different, you know, gestures, which they, you know, like to present themselves as more than a gas station. And in many ways they were, they taught me a lot of, you know, being able to have those one -on -one conversations with customers beyond just the appliance setting. Cause.
I think a lot of us are used to those warm conversations where people come up to you, right? But a quick trip to kind of teach you to have initiative, to come up to the customer, to engage with them, to have those cold contacts per se. And at first I wasn't really used to that, but it developed those skills for me. And then eventually I was able to just be able to talk with people and not have to have that much concern per se. And from there, you know, I did that for I'd say about a year and a half.
And then I transitioned over to, let's see, a few fast food restaurants, which was, you know, it's own kind of journey different from retail, but we'll touch more on that later. And that's where I stumbled upon Whole Foods. And for Whole Foods, I've met the greatest group of people I've ever met. You know, very much a great community in that store. And while there was a lot of things that, you know, I had to deal with on my first run, I knew that I had the support from them to go through that.
And even though, you know, it's stressful, the customers, unfortunately, might not be the kindest at times. I think that having that camaraderie with the people you work with, it's definitely helped quite a bit. so yeah, that's, that's a little bit about me. I'm sure I'm going to touch on a few points in a little bit. Yeah. It's one of the things I really admired about you is just your perspective on life. How a simple job.
is not just simple. You look at it more in a way where it's like, how can I help this person? Despite, you know, a kitchen or a gas station. That's something a lot of people don't see. You know, one of the things when I worked at Whole Foods was it was obviously I was working in the meat department and.
George Ramirez (07:17.345)
You know, you're just essentially, you know, giving people whatever piece of meat that they want. But it was more than that. Like you said, the people made it so much better. I you worked in the deli. I worked in the meat department. So our customers were a lot more nicer and they were.
very helpful with a lot of things. I had a lot of customers. When I first moved to Tucson, I had a lot of customers that went on my podcast. I had a lot of customers. I remember this is one of the biggest things that it made me smile where I was working one day and I see this couple and I recognize them and they're just staring at me and I'm like, I don't remember their name, but I went up to them. I'm like,
I remember you guys, you guys, I think they're from Texas or they're from like a southern state and I started explaining to them, you know, the information that they gave me when I first met them and then it just clicked back, you know, being away for three years and then just reconnecting like that. It was incredible, man, because it wasn't just me serving meat to people. It was now putting people in a very comfortable situation, me explaining to them, you know, life or me explaining to them.
100 %
They actually care about how my day is going. Sometimes I would bet to them. It was something really incredible that I will always miss. That's one of the things I love about Tucson in particular is that sense of community and empathy that you do feel from a lot of people. Working at the deli, it's a fast paced environment. So you're always having something to do. And it's sometimes easy to forget the great interactions you can have with customers. And sometimes they would ask me, what's your favorite meal from all this food that we have?
George Ramirez (09:33.555)
you have in front of me? What can I choose? What do you like? And being able to have that conversation with them and kind of go over my favorites, you know, and being able to put together that plate for them and then being excited about it and looking forward to it. I always found those interactions very meaningful. You know, being able to at least see how they're doing and, you know, being able to be a positive impact in their lives in some small way is great. And it's a privilege to have been able to do that for them.
Yeah, of course. Yeah, there we go.
George Ramirez (10:09.217)
So, sorry about that but, let's kinda get into some dark parts about retail. I feel like there are a lot of dark.
to retail and that's one thing a lot of people don't know. I've noticed a lot of people in that situation where they're in college and they just need a part -time job and then it kind of goes a different way. Right. I think for me, you know, in retail, and I touched a little bit on this, is you get to start to see, you know, how metrics driven in a sense everything is, you know, instead of understanding that...
there's a learning curve or you know, you gotta learn things bit by bit, a lot of places. And one place that comes to mind in particular, not to speak badly about them, because I do appreciate the opportunity they gave me was Goodwill. You know, on my transition out of insurance and back into retail, I needed a job. And they were one of the opportunities that I was told about and I applied and I was very grateful to get that position. But from day one, you know, they...
expected me to know everything. You know, there wasn't that sense of, hey, Mar, let me show you the ropes. Let's take you on a tour of the store. Let's develop your skills little by little. Instead it was, and I think this comes down to your management team. Every management team is going to be different. But the one that I had was very much, why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? Why don't you think like the, do all these things proactively? And I didn't know anything about it. And those are the environments that remind us, you know,
managers make the job as well worth it. If you don't have great management, you're not going to be really inclined to stay at a place very long because you know, you need a support group that cares about you and looks at you more than just a number, but as a person. And that's one of the aspects that retail, unfortunately, and I've noticed this across different jobs, not just that one, that they sometimes forget that, you know, they forget you have a life. They forget you have things outside of that environment.
George Ramirez (12:09.409)
that needs attention. And instead they want you to devote so much to that one job. You're so stressed that when you get home, you unfortunately take it out on family, for example, you don't hang out with them as often, you ignore them, you do things that you shouldn't be doing, but yet you're too tired. You don't have that energy to focus.
George Ramirez (12:33.569)
That's exactly.
describe it probably not as good as you but you described it in a way where the managers make a huge huge difference in really any job especially I feel like retail is probably one of the biggest ones where you know this isn't to talk bad about my previous managers that's not my goal here but I've had really good managers and I've had really bad managers.
and it was a night and day difference in productivity.
Overall happiness overall morale and it's something that I take back from like my military school days where if you have good leadership The ship is gonna sail smooth. If you have bad leadership, it's not gonna run smoothly and what ends up happening is it crashes down eventually, right and that's one thing I noticed that whole food where I had a really good manager and he ended up leaving and we got
this new manager and like I said this is talk bad about him but just the way he ran the department was in a way where I saw white people start to leave I saw the previous people and
George Ramirez (14:00.321)
It was something where I was like, wow, I've put so much time and effort into this place. And now it's burning down essentially very slowly, but it's burning down. The morale is down. Overall happiness is down.
You know people the customers would come up to me and tell me and that was one of the biggest like I openers when the customers come up and tell you hey This doesn't look the same that it used to You know, you you looked a little bit more stressed. You look a little bit more unhappy here I remember one of my favorite customers and we would always talk about this customer I I'm gonna miss him because every single time I saw him he was telling me other about a book that he was reading or he was telling me, you know, he's like a philosopher. Yeah
Yeah.
George Ramirez (15:18.979)
I had time for anything. Barely had, you know, I never got Saturdays, Sundays off. My schedule was all over the place. And it was something where I looked at it and I'm like, I moved to Tucson for a reason. I moved to Tucson to grow this podcast, to try to make my little...
contribution right
George Ramirez (15:56.097)
Much invested in what's going on in this department where it just sucks up all my energy sucks up all You know my soul essentially and when I come back home I'm not doing it. You know, I look at the progress I've made in this podcast in the past two weeks and It's a huge difference from when I was working at holdings, you know, like something like this this is probably wouldn't have happened if I was still working there, right and
You're right, managers make a huge, huge difference and I wish the best to my old manager. Like I said, I told him you did me a huge favor by firing me because...
There's more important things to like than just a job. At the end of the day, you know, that's a very mature way to take it for sure. I think my first ever job I got fired from just to touch a little bit on that was in 2019. I was working for a lab, you know, at the university. And I'll be honest, I was quite clumsy, you know, a lot of concepts. I was first learning the ropes of a job. And while I had the best intentions, I made mistakes.
And those mistakes were costly. And, you know, it came to one point where he just told me, you know what, you got to go. And at first, you know, I was really sad. I was beating myself up. You know, I was like, why, why didn't it give me another shot? You know, what's wrong? But it's about taking those experiences and learning from them and going, okay, what could I have done differently? What can I do now? Because, you know, the past of the past, it's all done. And a lot of people, you know, unfortunately we ponder on that and we think, I could have changed this. I could have, but no, it's about what you do now that defines it.
And instead of focusing on that, I went to my advisors. I talked to them. What can I do? What, you know, having that conversation with them kind of opened my eyes to then improving future jobs. And I've been hearing nothing but positive feedback from a lot of places, you know, and I'm, and I'm grateful for that one experience because it allowed me to look within myself and instead of beating myself up, I understood what I needed to do better. And here we are five years later, much better place. That's a, that's a beautiful.
George Ramirez (18:04.257)
beautiful way to describe it man because that's what exactly happened in my situation too where I made a mistake it was a costing mistake and I was beating myself up I was looking I was like I should have done something else but then I was like you know what this happened for a reason like you said the past is the past
There's no need to, you can't change it. I can't go up to them like, hey, you know, can we change what happened? No, it was already done. And instead of dwelling on everything, and instead of sitting down and beating myself up, I mean, there was a couple days where I did that, but you know what happened? I just put myself in a depressive mood and nothing got done. And I was like, you know what?
I need to continue. Life goes on. Correct. And it will go on. And that was a mistake. But it doesn't define who I am as a person. What can I do better? I started working on the podcast, started doing some photography stuff, and I'm a lot happier.
a lot happier and those mistakes like you said five years down the road look where you're at now imagine if you would have stayed at that job who would have known what would have happened but there's no read there's no point of looking back at that now and it's nice to see that you reflect it and you reflect back on that time and you continue to move forward you're going up to your mistake and you know life goes on yeah
That's the journey of life, you know, is that you got to continue forward no matter what adversity, whatever obstacles go in your way. One thing I'm going to touch them on about is as a kid, especially, you know, I dealt with a lot of obstacles. That was one thing that, you know, I have to put up with through elementary middle high school is, you know, for one, my social anxiety, my speech, you know, I wasn't able to have that great of conversation because I struggle with English in general. And it's about the support groups that I had, my family and people that.
George Ramirez (20:04.641)
were there no matter how much I fell and just stressed out because I'd come home from school and I would, you know, be crying and venting to my mom. I'm all like, mom, there's something wrong with me. I can't, you know, do this. I can't do that. And her being able to tell me, no, it's okay. You're going to be fine. And, you know, day by day growing in that and understanding that it's okay and it's going to get better. You know, it helped me and.
That's why, you know, as I said, I'm here now being able to have these conversations and be able to talk with people because I understood that my issues at that time were temporary and it's a part of growing up and you take what you can from it and you learn. So that's one thing. Yeah, I can relate to you on that growing up. you know, I was.
I was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia around the fifth grade but I always knew something was wrong and I... It was really tough. It was extremely hard especially I remember telling you I had a... my best friend was basically a genius. The guy was super smart and I always wanted to be like him. And I couldn't... you know I couldn't... I couldn't... I struggled with math, I couldn't read until the second grade and...
George Ramirez (22:43.941)
I'm gonna have this forever
Especially from now, a lot of times I get distracted very easily. But when you're hard on yourself, it makes things, I feel like it's 10 times harder.
You know, when I slip up or when I make a mistake, I said, it's okay. It's okay. You're going to be fine. You know, even if you got fired, that's okay because life is going to show you the way that you need to go. And I'm a big believer in everything happens for a reason. Correct. And I'm starting to understand that now.
You're giving me quite a bit of chills here, George. I think that you're absolutely right. Everybody's unique. And I think sometimes we forget that, you know, all our journeys, all our lives are going to be different. What we do, what our decisions are, our passions, our hobbies, all that is going to be different. And we're distinctly ourselves. We can't be focused on a group. We can't be focused on a majority. We've got to be focused on what we want as people. And I think our biggest enemies are ourselves because oftentimes we look at celebrities, other people, compare our lives to them and go, man, my life's not sufficient.
It's not good enough and it should never be like that. Instead. You should be going at your own pace, you know one focusing on themselves and I definitely was the worst at that because again, I wanted to be normal like everybody I would see these groups of you know, everybody getting along laughing cracking their jokes and here I am being on my own little corner in my own little spot, you know sitting there and going I want to be a part of that conversation, but I have nothing to contribute to it and
George Ramirez (24:39.457)
It caused a lot of anxiety. It caused a lot of self doubt. It caused depression and I was stressed about it. But again, as I grew older, I understood that we all live our own lives and do it the way we do it, you know, and are our own selves and we should aspire to be the best version of ourselves. And how we do that is by focusing on our own lives, seeing our own hobbies and living it out, you know, and taking it day by day. So.
I agree with a lot of what you said because it really reflects a lot of what I had to deal with. And so thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that too, because I understand that I really do something where.
It was some really hard times, man. It really was looking back. A lot of fun times, actually. I actually didn't care about, I stopped caring about education all the way up to, I think it was the seventh grade. I just did not care about school. I already had a plan. I wanted to join the Navy. All I knew that I just had to graduate high school. So I'm like, all right, just gotta get that. Get that out of the way. But in the seventh grade,
George Ramirez (25:47.777)
really really good English teacher and she I forget her name but I remember exactly where what room she's in how she looks like I just sound horrible horrible things but she made a huge huge impact in my life and when I started going to her class they switched me
Switch me to so like I was in normal classes and then they switched me to wasn't special ed classes, but they were like kids that have dyslexia HD and all these different Learning disabilities and that was a huge transition for me because a lot of the times during during that time I felt like they just put all these kids that didn't want to focus and they just put them in one room and You know when you get a bunch of kids that can't focus, you know, fights are started and I
You know, sometimes they're misdiagnosed too, so they just have all this group of kids and they Push them away and they don't really give them the resources that they need right and it was hard because I went from a normal class to There was fights every day and sometimes people fight with the teachers and I remember there was this one time there was a big kid he was like six foot seven Yeah, no, that's huge
Right. Yeah. Right.
you know this isn't where I belong but then slowly but surely I started making friends a lot of them you know they were doing some stuff that they shouldn't but I would just be there with them and I started to realize that they're all the same yeah we each have our little different we're all unique in our own different way but
George Ramirez (28:04.577)
We're all just kids. We're all just people sharing life on earth, finding our own way. You know, during that time it was middle school, so there really just wasn't, there wasn't any responsibilities that we have now, but man, it was some good times. But that teacher, she made me realize how...
George Ramirez (28:44.449)
That's a very wonderful perspective, very profound. I always try to tell that to my brother every single day because he's 16. So, you know, he's in that difficult stage in life or I was, and, you know, you have that pressure of what am I going to do in the next two years that are going to define my future entirely. And one of the things I always tell him is, look, you don't have to conform to whatever, you know, people tell you.
you got to go to university. You got to do this. Do what you want to do. What defines you? What makes you excited? What makes you want to wake up every day and want to do it? And for him, you know, he wants to be able to make, you know, the
I think bioengineering, so they work on organs, transplants, all that kind of stuff. So he wants to help people in that way. And I tell him, well, great, you know, look into that, focus on those things. And you might make the greatest contribution to humanity, being able to get them the kidneys that they need or whatnot, you know, you'll change lives. But so long as it's something that calls to you, not someone else, you know, telling you to do that. And I think one of the things that I struggled with growing up myself is that I always took opinions of other people. Why? Because I wanted to conform. I wanted to be likeable.
And, you know, growing up, especially in high school, when they would say, well, you got to do this, you know, and I would do it because that was the normal thing to do. But I wasn't happy. And you got to find fulfillment in your own way. And that's one of the thing lessons that I'm trying to teach you and my brother so he doesn't have to go through that. You know, it's given that imparting that little bit of knowledge, I guess you can say. That's awesome. I love hearing stuff like that. It's true. We live in a society now where we're so focused on.
year for making money and living a certain lifestyle.
George Ramirez (30:21.761)
When in reality it should be just finding what you love. It doesn't have to be anything huge. If you want to be an art teacher, go for it. If you want to build your own podcast, be a photographer, or be a boxer, or be a doctor, or work at a grocery store, or work at a gas station, it doesn't matter what it has to be. I've noticed even as a meat cutter, even though I started working with meat since I was 18, never would I have thought that I would have been a meat cutter.
But I'm like, hey, even as you know, even working in a meat department, I still can be able to change people's lives. And it made me realize that where it's doesn't have to be anything fancy. It can be whatever it is that your heart wants to be. But as long as you follow your heart, I think that's really one of the biggest things. And you know who Canelo is, right? Yeah. OK. There was a really good pope and they asked him.
George Ramirez (31:41.089)
Yeah. Exactly. I think love is very important to have compassion. You know, I think a lot of times like with trust, you know, people always think there's going to be strings attached.
And I think that, you know, a goal is to grow a community and to grow society in general is to understand that if people do it out of their hearts, there is no strings attached. You know, there is going to be a lot of growth and, and I'm saying this more holistically, you know, as a community, you know, people do things out of their own hearts. There's going to be a lot of potential for a lot of growth, a lot of change, a lot of opportunities. And I don't know if we're quite there yet, but you know, I hope every step that little by little it gets there.
Because I, you know, for example, what I do, you know, when I help somebody out, I'm never expecting them to return it to me. Because at that point, you know, why do the help? Why offer it if there's always an expectation? Do things to better people. That's what I try to do. And that's what I hope to see in society and the community itself too.
George Ramirez (32:58.977)
You're right, we're not ready for that conversation yet. But it'll come. I think with everything going on in the world, despite it being so dark, it's gonna lead to that because eventually we are going to have to rely on...
George Ramirez (33:56.193)
we can contribute to that. Yeah, like you said, it shouldn't be for reward or it shouldn't be for anything. It should be just because it's the right thing to do. Right. And we're all trying to find that little contribution I feel like to make a better world. So our future sons and daughters and their future sons and daughters can live in a better place where it's actually loving. That's not how it is right now. Right. I think you know, I'm going to take this more on a
world stage, for example, a lot of, you know, unfortunately there is a lot of greed, a lot of self -interest, a lot of, you know, pushing agendas that, you know, kind of get in that way. But my hope and I hope to see this, you know, whether it be in my lifetime or in future lifetime, that people can come together and forget about all these, you know, different nationalities, culture, like all these things that make us different and instead look at what makes us similar and what makes us human.
and being able to help each other out, being able to further our lives and the lives of children and so on and so forth. I really hope to see that one day instead of all the wars and the conflicts that are needless and tragic. It really saddens me to look at the news and want to see we've ended world hunger, some kind of good something, but instead, here's a conflict popping up here, there's a conflict popping up there. And that to me, it speaks to tragedy, but I hope it changes. And I look forward to that change.
It's I think it's just willingness. Yeah, I think it's not really I look at how my life has been going now and it hasn't been hard work. It's just been
Going with the grain instead of against the grain and that's one of the things I noticed in life when you try to force things It never works out the way that you want to work out, right? When you just allow Life or when you allow this higher power God source, whatever you want to call it. Just go go with that Life becomes so much easier, you know, it's like having this weight lifted off of you. It was like work when they told me I got fired this weight
George Ramirez (36:15.169)
This is the beginning of something. It's not something bad. It's going to be something very beautiful. Now I just have to be willing, instead of going back to old habits, just be willing to embrace life. But I do want to talk about that, where the world is going right now. I know we touched on it a little with our last conversation. But we look at.
all the wars going on. We look at...
all the injustice, all the greed that's going on. Sometimes I have to like stop myself from researching too much because you just get wrapped in this cycle. I remember when Ukraine and Russia, when Russia first made the Ukraine, I was so invested into it because I mean, it is possible, what happens there can change how the world reacts or how the world can be in the future. But yeah.
wars in Ukraine, Russia, you have wars, you even look at Mexico as well too, you know, there's not necessarily a war, but look at all the stuff they're going through with, you know, the drug cartels, the corruption, look at stuff that's going on in South America as well too, you look at stuff that's going on in Israel and Palestine, and you look at Africa, you look at Europe as well too, you look at China and Taiwan, actually I had a really good conversation with one of my friends from military school from China, and I asked him like, hey, what do you think about China and Taiwan, and you know, we
Yeah
George Ramirez (38:10.977)
What do you think? What's your opinion on that? I think that definitely you are right. I think we are seeing alliances form. Actually, recently, I don't know if you heard about this, but Russia and North Korea just formed their own kind of. So when you look at how everything is moving into place, you are looking at things as power struggle that's going to develop and unfortunately will lead to a bigger conflict. How that plays out, of course, is going to be dependent on how things go.
I mean, it could be a domino effect. It could be proxy wars. We don't know quite yet. But as things are going, I think that unfortunately we are going to enter that. And I hope it doesn't. But that's just how things seem to be playing. And we're going to see China, Russia, and all their allies on one side. And then you've got the West. So we'll see how that goes.
Yeah, and I'm sure you know it's completely different from like World War II, World War III, where that style of warfare was completely different. I mean, you even look at World War I compared to World War II and just it was a huge difference in that short amount of time. And you look at all the technology that has been made, you know, we can destroy the world ten times over. And I think that's the one scary part. I don't think it'll happen just because...
I just, I don't know, I have a feeling like, you know, nukes aren't gonna be used, but that is a very, very big if that can't happen. I think that war is gonna be very different from what we thought about in World War I. Like, for example, I'm just gonna walk you through it a little bit. World War I, there was a lot of trench warfare, a lot of that, you know, ruling what we think about traditionally. World War II, you got Blitzkrieg and, you know, airplanes and all that craziness. I think this one's gonna be digital.
damaging infrastructure, cutting off internet satellites, all those different passive ways are more gonna be more employed than you're fighting on the ground with tanks and airplanes. I think that that kind of war is gonna be more to damage the society more or less than just all out brawl like what we're used to seeing. And that's what makes this kind of potential war very dangerous.
George Ramirez (40:19.329)
is that we don't know how this new technology that we have can be used and to see it being used, I mean, it's going to be very unfortunate. I hope it doesn't get there though.
Yeah
George Ramirez (41:27.329)
You know, I hope it doesn't go that way but who knows, you know, it's not that I'm like preparing for it but if it happens then it happens. There's nothing I can really do about that. You can't fix greed. I feel like that's really why a lot of this fighting is happening is just because of greed. But we can't be scared. We just have to allow these things happen and just kind of...
go with it. Not necessarily like go go with it in a way where it's like we accept this obviously war is not it should it's unacceptable. Yeah, it's unacceptable. But you know, when you start looking at the grand scheme of things, it's something where
I, you know, I, what someone in a certain position of power when he calls that, you know, it's like Vietnam, a lot of people didn't want to go and they got drafted and it's like, you know, you had all these unfortunate people go. So, but you know, that's the future. I am not worried about it. I know it's, it's, it's a possibility though. Sometimes we have to be realistic with ourselves. Yeah. I think, you know, the most important thing also in life is to not stress over things you can't control. You know, because it's important to take into perspective.
of what you can and what you can focus on because the bigger picture you know as much as we would like to be able to influence in a way as we ought to understand you know unfortunately there there are people who will influence it because they're in those positions but it's important to also not stress over that and to just say okay that's what's going to happen but here's what I'm going to do in my part of the world what I can do and control and focusing on that instead you know.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to explain. I'm not the best at explaining stuff. Nope, you're right. It's not to worry about it. And what can I do in my spot and go on from there? One of the things that we touched on before, which I really wish for some reason, just the software did not capture it, but was this crisis that we're having at the border with the...
George Ramirez (43:32.705)
I mean, that's the only word that I can put in. Migrants, migrants, right? Migrants, yeah. I know there's a bunch of different words, but you explained to me, you went all the way back to, I think it was the 1800s, and you explained to me in a way where what happened then is still affecting what's going on now. And this is kind of my opinion, and I know you're gonna share in it, but...
So this is from what I'm understanding. You have a lot of these destabilized countries, you know, Central, South America, not even just there, you know, you have people coming over from Africa, going through Mexico, and, you know, different countries, not just Hispanics, but all different nationalities. And...
They're coming over here and people are getting very mad for them to come, you know, coming over to this side. And, you know, it's not a white or black situation. A lot of people are like, just send them back. You know, when you start doing some research on what has been happening in these countries, it's not that I'm saying, you know, just let them in. It's because, like I said, it's not a white or, you know, black or white situation. It's very complex. It's in a way where it's like...
What, not necessarily what do we do, but why is this happening? Right. I think that, and I'm going to relate to what we spoke with earlier, you know, in the previous conversation, but when you look back at the 1800s, so just to give a bit of a picture to the audience and everything, back then they were all in one big empire, the Spanish empire, and the Napoleonic Wars were breaking out in Europe.
That destabilize Spain and therefore destabilize the colonies. And a lot of people were fed up with the system that was in place because really Spain was benefiting, but the colonies weren't, you know, it was a very dependent on whatever Spain was deciding. That's what the colonies would do. And when these countries were all gaining independence, they were more or less a bunch of warlords. They weren't really a directed purpose. There wasn't really a focus on what's going to happen. What's the future. They just want to empower for themselves. A lot of them. And so you get, you know,
George Ramirez (45:46.817)
Mexico, a bunch of these countries eventually, you know, gained independence one by one. And because they weren't used to the semblance of independence, when it came time to really start to make laws and direct the people, there wasn't a direction. There was dis -cibilization. There was a lot of infighting, a lot of corruption, a lot of self -interest. And in contrast to that, you got the United States that was being developed by the UK. You know, the British were actually
putting a lot of, you know, allowing a lot of autonomy for the United States. So they were kind of used to that semblance of running themselves. So when they were given that opportunity, they were able to focus on their vision. And their vision was of course, you know, the manifest destiny, growing the country, you know, developing it. And when you encounter neighbors that are very destabilized and don't have a focus, it's very easy to be able to influence them and benefit from that destabilization. And so that's what allowed and paved the way for the United States to grow as it did.
And unfortunately, at the cost of a lot of these countries. And to kind of further the picture, I mean, that gave way to a lot of banana republics, a lot of, you know, the Monroe Doctrine, where the United States said, this is my sphere of influence. This is what I control. All the Americas is mine. And unfortunately, that was at the detriment to these countries that, you know, had to suffer from that and, you know, cause a lot of still destabilization we see to this day.
George Ramirez (47:16.929)
So actually, I'm gonna go back a little bit. I had a grandmother that, half grandmother, that she escaped the Civil War in El Salvador. And she crossed the border with two of her daughters, my aunts. And she saw all of this coming. Had an uncle as well too who fought for, he was on the government side in El Salvador.
George Ramirez (47:59.905)
and all the things that they've been through and how destabilized they were by the United States. Do you feel like because of a lot of that stabilization, that's why a lot of people are starting to come over here? Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, people want what's best not only for themselves, but their children. You know, my mom, that was her motive for leaving Mexico, for example. I don't know, I'm going to get a little personal here, but basically, you know, she grew up in Mexico city and she witnessed a lot of tragedy, a lot of, you know, seeing.
people dead on the street with their organs taken out of their body and stuff with money. You know, experiencing robberies when she was 16, she tried to open her first business and being robbed twice. You know, a lot of things that push any normal person to have to think to themselves, what am I going to do to not only better myself, but for my children, for, you know, our family.
And so she had to make that difficult choice. And she decided, you know what, I'm going to give, get my, take my chances and go to experience this American dream. And well, she's come to realize it isn't perfect, but it was a far better choice than what she was presented with.
And I think that that translates to the common person. For example, you know, in El Salvador, you have, you know, the Mara Salvatrucha, you have MS -13, all these competing gangs that recruit a lot of young people and end up killing a lot of people. You know, it's the whole silver led for those people, either they join or they die. And people don't want to be faced with that, you know? And so the opportunity to be able to find something different is what a lot of people pursue. And.
Well, with El Salvador, it's great to see what Bukele was able to do, you know, and of course he's controversial for it, but I personally am on the side of he did a lot of good for, you know, to make those drastic choices, but he made the right choices. And now you see a country that actually is getting it together and being an inspiration for other countries in the region to hopefully take that kind of direction. Yeah. Do you think that's a little dangerous though for him?
George Ramirez (50:06.049)
He did.
George Ramirez (50:49.441)
I'm going to say that my hope is that obviously that the progress continues and that, you know, Salvador paves the way for, you know, growth in Central America and hopefully in Latin America in general, though for the U S you know, that could pose as a threat because our very idea is that our way of living in society is better. And if you have an example to the rest of the countries of a, this is a direction you could be taking.
you know, maybe that might not be beneficial to United States in the long run. And so they might try to instigate some sort of some sort of coup or some sort of inner conflict, you know, for their own personal benefit. That is a possibility. But what the way I see globalization, the US is more focused on the bigger players, per se. You got, you know, you're.
Russia, your China, even Venezuela, you know, those kind of players kind of draw more attention per se. El Salvador, you know, it's a smaller country. It's about 7 million people in the US as it might not be the biggest priority. But if it in the future, it continues to be this beacon of potential and may, you know, that might gain the US's attention, perhaps. But I would say not immediately. Yeah. And one of the things I was thinking about, too, is hopefully the mindset kind of shifts a little bit with the people in power here.
Right and that's the unique thing they're running on Bitcoin now as an official currency, so it's kind of cool
George Ramirez (52:33.761)
national level. But yeah, I'm actually excited. I might have the opportunity.
Awesome
George Ramirez (53:07.939)
That was something that was really sad, but not to see a country that's prospering and and yeah, you know He's very controversial my brother and I actually got in a conversation with that but Despite the people are happier and I think that's a really really big thing because now other countries can start You know looking at that and they said hey this guy took this country, which was one of the most dangerous countries in the world
where it's beautiful, you can go out into the streets, you can, you know, you don't have to worry about stuff. Exactly. It's a huge, huge difference and it's a huge beacon. It really is, despite being a small country for what they've done, it's incredible. It really is. And I really hope to see that in Mexico and other countries, you know, that they take that example. In Mexico, you know, they're electing their first female president and that's fascinating. That's great to see. Obviously my hope is that, you know, we select the best people for positions, not just because of diversity, but for the right people.
those positions. But it's exciting to see the progressivism that's happening in Latin America and El Salvador, you know, who's being this beacon of this is what we can do. I hope Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala, all these countries that border it, take that inspiration and then further themselves to kind of say, we can do this holistically as a society as a group as a community.
George Ramirez (54:32.737)
what happened in Guatemala with the Banana Republic and also the president during that time and the US's influence during that time as well. So looking back, that's one of the sadder parts of history for me because Guatemala was heading in a really good direction. You know, at first they were of course subjected under the United Fruit Company who was, you know, extracting a lot of money and using Guatemala solely as a Banana Republic. And you have this individual, his name was Jacobo Urbens.
Fantastic president that it was going to be because he was distributing land among the people, not to this big corporation, but to the people who actually needed it and could develop Guatemala and making a lot of policies that would allow for the country to instead of being this backwater to being up on the world stage. And of course, special interests took over what United Fruit Company was all like, this is going to be unprofitable. We don't want this guy. And they turned to the U S and say, we got to get rid of them.
And so the CIA does what the CIA did notoriously throughout the 50s. And they decided to instigate a coup in a civil war that ousts Jacobo. He ends up going to Mexico and he lived out the rest of his life there, fortunately, I guess, but unfortunately for the country. And that's what led to the spiral of instability that eventually led to a really, really bad civil war that I'm sure you're aware about. I think it was in the 80s and 90s. It was really, really bad. And it's sad because
the US took away another like moment for a bukele moment basically for Guatemala earlier that could have potentially changed the, made a domino effect throughout the rest of Central America and potentially Mexico of course, and change things earlier. But because of that one event, we probably regressed the society for 40, 50 years, you know, and it's sad to see that. Yeah.
I mean, I don't know exactly the direction that they're going in right now just because I haven't been able to keep up with what's going on over there, but I feel like soon enough, things are gonna change. I think El Salvador is really, really that beacon of hope in that region of the world because they need it, just like all these other countries need it too.
George Ramirez (57:19.299)
It wasn't just him. I'm sure there were a lot of people that we don't know about that really helped them with getting this country in the right spot. But I'm also, not that I'm skeptical, but one of the things is I kind of stopped believing in politics. I think it's somewhat outdated. A lot of people will call me naive for saying that the way I look at life now is we have to...
I think the quote that definitely defines that, you know, is the path to hell is paved on good intentions.
And I think, you know, you have a lot of people who in their mind, their intentions were for the better. You have, you know, Miles Adong, Stalin, all these people who in their minds, they were going to further society. But at the end of the day, you know, they paved the way with their good intentions and it caused a lot of pain and suffering along the way. Yeah. I think you said it absolutely right. I wish I had the book with me here because it was a part that said.
George Ramirez (58:49.761)
social causes or all these outdated systems follow your feelings and where they lead you follow your heart and where they lead you and I think if we all embrace that as a society as naive as it sounds you know I look at it in my life my life is not perfect but it's going in the way we're supposed to imagine we just all embrace love obviously a lot of people are like how do you define love that's you know that's that's for another that is a very
Yeah, love is it's a very difficult thing to define for a lot of people.
George Ramirez (59:51.297)
This God is just love loves you loves me loves the animals that are outside loves the environment Despite of whatever you might do. There is no Special words that you have to say to go to heaven. There isn't anything special that you have to do Because we all have the book that I'm reading we all have this inside of us. Yeah, we all have that little part that is connected to this higher power
And it's up to us to channel it or to follow it and to embrace it. But we also have the choice not to write that free will. Right. And if we embrace that love, we embrace God, we just go the way he wants us to go or whatever direction it is. That's when we start to understand these aspects of love. I think love comes from God and I think God is love. And I know that's kind of tricky, but when you kind of come into this realization where we're not going to fully know.
George Ramirez (01:00:54.085)
Science doesn't deal with absolutes, you know, and a lot of people often do forget that they want the answer to absolutely every question but nothing is absolute and You know with my journey with God, it's it's been a growing process, you know at first I as I told you I grew up in a Catholic household so it was a big part of my
life growing up. Then I went through a phase that I was very skeptical. You know, I'm like, why are we believing into some potentially coping mechanism? Because that's how I saw it for a time. You know, I saw it as a way for people to cope. They were trying to say, well, they got this higher power because they're just trying to cope with their daily lives. And eventually, you know, as I got older, I kind of understood, no, he's real, maybe or, you know, they're real. Right. You know, and that, you know, I've been
starting to you know picked up a Bible and I'm starting to read that and kind of see you know what What is talked about? What are the concept? What is the story to try to understand that? You know, and it's been a great journey so far and
George Ramirez (01:02:15.137)
I haven't finished it yet. So, you know, I can't give an entirely informed opinion on that, but I think that it's an interesting literature. You know, it's a collection of different people who, you know, translated the word of God into that. And I find it fascinating. Of course, get back to me in a few weeks, you know, when I finally finish that and, and I'll give you a more informed opinion. But so far I'd say it's fascinating and it's interesting.
you're reading through the Old Testament and seeing the different stories and really getting a perspective of what, you know, God was trying to impart to us. Are you ever skeptical? Of course, you know, with anything you're going to be slightly skeptical, not to say that that might change, you know, as I go through that. But for now, I'd say, yeah, somewhat. Because I'm skeptical. I don't go into it because I don't read the Bible that much anymore. Mm hmm.
a really good friend of mine gave me this book called the Gospel of Thomas and it's a book that's not in the Bible and a lot of people are like, that's the word heresy or whatever. Right, because if you read the ending of the Bible it says if you add any words you'll get the plagues of you know or whatever basically saying you know this is the absolute book you know and anything additional is that was wrong and I think people adopt that mentality when they get these scriptures.
Yeah, so the fascinating thing about the Gospel of Thomas is, I'm like, why is this book banned? Or why isn't this book in the Bible? And I look at it and it's literally just a bunch of parables or just a bunch of things Jesus has said.
George Ramirez (01:04:09.089)
I mean, there's more to it. It gives a bunch of different stories, but they're all really fascinating stories. When I read that book, it made me... It's really short. It's not a very long book. And I can even lend it to you if you want. Actually, I'll lend it to you. It's really, really good. But...
I don't go in a way where I'm skeptical. I'm like, I'm not going to believe what I say. But you know, this is something I've heard so many times in my life where, like you said, this is the absolute book. But a lot of the times...
what we see from man is every aspect of man from religion, from politics, from corporations, from everything, everything. It's been corrupted by the human ego. And I know a lot of people are like, you have to believe this book 100%. If not, then you're doing yourself a disservice. And I don't think we should go that way because regardless of what anybody says, this book was written by man.
Yeah.
George Ramirez (01:05:48.131)
Because if you truly accept the fact that God loves everybody how can you go into saying that God has destroyed, you know, you know these people and
George Ramirez (01:06:47.073)
Yeah
George Ramirez (01:07:17.665)
The church isn't going to want you to speak out. They're going to want people to follow in order. And that's the society that we kind of created. Definitely. I think you touched on a lot of great points, you know, because you're right, a lot of, unfortunately, you know, your pastors are people who direct the church, they're going to have their own beliefs, and they're going to try to educate you in what they see and what their perspectives are and their interpretations. And that's where it gets a little gray, I guess. And that was one of the reasons, you know, my parents decided to
to leave the church because there was a lot of that you know this is my beliefs and this is how we're gonna interpret the Bible when in reality you know everybody's gonna interpret it a little differently and like you said you know when I when I read through the Bible you hear a lot of terms you're like really is that what God would say like slavery or different things like that you're like why is this a thing and yeah
George Ramirez (01:08:14.785)
This isn't right
George Ramirez (01:08:32.001)
Right. You know, each of us have our own sense of morality, what we see, what we believe in what is true to ourselves. And so, you know, right now, as I mentioned, I can't make a truly informed opinion because I haven't finished it. But, you know, when I get to that point, of course, you know, my opinions might change or maybe they may not. It just depends on, you know, what what I see and, you know, how I as a person take it. You know, yeah, yeah, I'm not saying church is a bad thing. They can definitely be a lot of good, especially if they're promoting that.
George Ramirez (01:09:39.553)
They really are. You're an amazing person. I know that you're going to do so much good. I know that you're looking forward to this next job of yours. And I'm really, I really am happy for you. I really am because, Whole Foods was a good place, but it's time to move on. Thank you so much, George, for having me. It's a pleasure and I look forward to future episodes and you know, you are a great friend and I look forward to having these conversations and I hope the best in the new job that you got yourself too. So, you know, definitely you're back.
about that. Thank you.
George Ramirez (01:10:16.929)
that was great.
