#101. Chris Paillet: The Start of EMG: From Concept to Creation

In this conversation, I sit down with my longtime friend Chris Paillet, a key figure at EMG, to explore the complex world of the medical device industry. Chris shares hard-earned insights on navigating market challenges, the power of feedback, and the importance of cultivating a strong company culture. Drawing from his entrepreneurial journey, he opens up about overcoming setbacks, the value of diverse perspectives in decision-making, and how criticism can fuel growth. We also discuss his personal evolution through therapy, the creative process behind podcasting, and why maintaining a positive mindset is essential when facing adversity. Throughout, Chris highlights EMG’s mission and its broader impact on the community and the healthcare system at large.

Chris Paillets email: cpaillet@emg-devices.com

EMGs website: www.emg-devices.com

Takeaways

• Starting a podcast can be a learning experience.
• Building connections with others can lead to collaboration.
• Empathy is a driving force behind innovation.
• College is a time for exploration and finding one's passion.
• Perspective can change how we view challenges.
• Workplace culture is shifting towards profit over empathy.
• Empathy is essential for creating meaningful change.
• Building a startup requires teamwork and dedication.
• Doubt is a natural part of the journey.
• Continuous growth is key to personal and professional development. Technology is evolving rapidly, providing more resources than ever.
• Customer service is crucial for business success.
• Medical devices can be prohibitively expensive for many consumers.
• Continuous improvement is essential for meeting customer needs.
• Empathy plays a vital role in customer interactions.
• Understanding the healthcare system is important for product development.
• Overcoming financial setbacks is a common challenge for entrepreneurs.
• Building a strong company culture fosters collaboration and innovation.
• Listening to customer feedback is key to product improvement.
• You can teach skills, but personality and culture are inherent. Navigating conflicts in business requires open communication.
• Diverse perspectives are essential for growth and innovation.
• Handling criticism is crucial for building trust with customers.
• Therapy can be a valuable tool for personal growth.
• Consistency is key to success in podcasting.
• Conversations can have a significant impact on society.
• Balancing personal life and work is important for well-being.
• Acknowledging global issues helps maintain perspective.
• Health and well-being should be prioritized over profits.
• Leaving a positive legacy is a goal for entrepreneurs.

https://linktr.ee/ramirezangelgeorge

Instagram:
www.instagram.com/george_ramirez_a (Personal)
www.instagram.com/theportfolio_ofgeorge(Photography)
www.instagram.com/alightinthe_world (Podcast)
Tiktok:
www.tiktok.com/@alightinthe_world (Podcast)

Chapters

• 0:00 The Journey Begins: Starting a Podcast
• 3:10 Building Connections: Friendship and Collaboration
• 5:56 Empathy in Action: The Motivation Behind Innovation
• 8:54 Navigating College Life: Finding Purpose and Passion
• 11:59 The Power of Perspective: Learning from Others
• 15:00 Empathy vs. Profit: The Changing Workplace Culture
• 18:01 Creating Change: The Importance of Empathy
• 21:08 From Idea to Reality: Building a Startup
• 24:06 Overcoming Doubts: The Ongoing Journey of Growth
• 29:17 The Evolution of Technology and Accessibility
• 31:58 Customer Service: The Heart of Business
• 34:40 Navigating the Medical Device Market
• 37:14 Feedback and Continuous Improvement
• 39:51 The Importance of Empathy in Customer Interactions
• 40:51 Healthcare Perspectives: Challenges and Opportunities
• 48:36 Overcoming Setbacks in Entrepreneurship
• 1:01:50 Building a Strong Company Culture
• 1:04:19 Navigating Conflicts in Business Decisions
• 1:07:07 The Importance of Diverse Perspectives
• 1:10:23 Handling Criticism and Building Trust
• 1:12:08 The Role of Therapy and Personal Growth
• 1:14:04 Inspiration Behind the Podcast Journey
• 1:17:01 Consistency and Growth in Podcasting
• 1:20:54 The Impact of Conversations on Society
• 1:22:05 Balancing Personal Life and Work
• 1:24:06 Acknowledging Global Issues Without Losing Focus
• 1:26:33 The Pursuit of Health and Well-being
• 1:29:10 Leaving a Positive Legacy
• 1:30:35 Connecting with the Community

Transcript

Speaker 3 (00:00.568)
Yeah, the first ever episode I did was...

with my buddy from the Philippines. And this whole entire process with another person, it took me probably like an hour to get it all started. So now looking at it like with another person on, no, not just another two people on, you know, it's so much more efficient, but back then, dude, it would take me like 20, 30 minutes to get everything set up. Cause I didn't know exactly what I was doing. And I was also, had this old MacBook, a 2012 MacBook.

that still ran, I like upgraded it. cost me like a hundred something bucks. I'm like, whenever I, so for example, like my photography, the podcast.

It all started.

very cheaply, you know, cause I don't. Exactly. Yes. You know, and I think that's a good way to start this where a lot of my hobbies, that's how they started. You know, not a lot of us can afford, you know, the expensive stuff. So.

Speaker 1 (00:49.353)
things do.

Exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:04.11)
With the podcast, I started with this specific

I did a lot of research on this specific mic. They're cheap, but they're very effective. They're old school though. And then the 2012 MacBook. And that's how it started. That's how all of this kind of started. And then I was like, all right, I need to upgrade. So I started doing research on the upgrades that I needed to make. then, because like if I'm gonna spend my money on something, it has to be, it has to last me a while.

great.

Speaker 2 (01:31.95)
So with a car same thing with the photography, you know, I started with a Not older but yeah, I'd say like an older Sony boots

or you know exactly

Yes, that's the term.

So, and then it lasted me all the way. Yeah. All the way until now. I'm like, that's like the same thing. Like you look around and you know, we're, we're in a, in a guest house, but that's how things come to be. that's how a lot of stories start, you know, and it's, it's beautiful too, you know? but Chris, welcome on man. welcome on so much.

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:09.624)
Thank you.

I'll kind of start how we became friends. I don't know exactly the date. We were young.

We were. We were.

How old is this?

Do you think we were like 20?

Speaker 1 (02:24.558)
I 21. I was 21 years old. I think this was back in 2018, 2019. Yeah. Yeah. Around there. used to come to, I used to come, a little bit of context, I used come to Whole Foods. Yeah. And you just kind of knew everything. And more importantly, something about your personality. You had a lot of charisma.

OK.

Speaker 2 (02:32.812)
Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:47.822)
She ate that.

I appreciate that.

and just you were friendly, you know, and that you're a great customer service. I appreciate that. You know, I just kind of gravitated to that. And it was really just. Yeah, mostly gravitated to that, you know.

I appreciate that because

Sorry, I need to pop one in just because I don't know what it is about these nicotine pouches, man. They're very, they're very effective. You know, I've been doing these for a long time and it's funny. Like you look at Joe Rogan and all the bigger people, they start doing it too. And it's like, I don't know what it is, but with nicotine, that conversation just kind of flows. Sorry about that.

Speaker 3 (03:20.748)
now that like.

Speaker 1 (03:30.315)
Sure, no, it's okay.

But yeah, no, it's funny.

that you say that because during that time he was young as well too but and it wasn't that I knew everything

I was

Speaker 3 (03:44.417)
was just.

Speaker 2 (03:48.576)
Some of the stuff whole foods was pretty simple and not that I bullshitted my way through but it's I listen to other when someone comes up one thing I loved about that Whole Foods was when someone would come up I would ask him. Hey, how do you cook this with? Because I generally

what do do with this? Because I was. So, I would be like, hey, how do I cook this? I would just.

Staying curious.

Speaker 2 (04:08.108)
When someone else would come, Hey, whatever the other person was, what you know, told me they're like, you know, I would panko it, whatever it was. Sure. You know, I repeat what other say. And then for some reason, people thought that I was knowledgeable about it, but it wasn't that I was because I really wasn't. It was just because I like to listen to what other people say. People start saying, Hey, I cook a certain way. And a lot of people, sir, you know,

If a lot of people... This.

Speaker 3 (04:37.303)
you're like

Okay, then naturally that thing is going to be cooked that way or they're going to prepare it that way. But yeah, it's.

kind of crazy how you know then it wasn't anything special but how we met

Yeah, and going off of that, that goes into the idea of perspective. know, everyone's going to have a perspective on in this instance, how to cook something. You know, the best chefs in the world are going to have a different perspective than, you know, a college kid. You know, and so there that goes on to your point of staying curious, you know, asking questions, you know, asking how to maybe possibly better yourself. Exactly. And it's.

Just important to always.

Speaker 1 (05:26.2)
Like I said, stay curious and ask why and learn most importantly, because you know, they say you never stop learning. Exactly. Even when you're older, it might be harder to gurgitate information, right? But you don't stop learning. You don't stop learning about others. And that comes back to the idea of EMG, how we started the company was just simply one of one of my best friends at the U of A.

That's true.

Speaker 1 (05:56.59)
I don't have a physical disability, but he was wheelchair bound. as you know, Arizona, the campus is hot. Arizona out here, big campus, Tucson, can get to 100, 107, 115 degrees at the highest. that's not even including the concrete, correct, correct. And so just building, mostly we try to build this device for him.

You

That's not even including the concrete.

Speaker 1 (06:24.782)
because he was one of my best friends and I'd see him around campus all the time. So that was some of the motivation for originally thinking of this wheelchair device and idea.

So let's go a little bit before. Let's go a little bit.

that during the time we met. Okay. And what was going on in your life during that time? Obviously you were going to university. Yeah. what was going on during that time? Obviously, you know, you guys were building something during that time, but all of it. We what was Chris like during those ages?

Why the U of A?

Speaker 3 (06:58.761)
Not all of it, but you know.

Yeah, you know, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. Very common problem for a first, second year college student, third year even. Didn't know what I wanted to do. And I struggled, changed my major multiple times, political science, changed it to history. Big history guy. Mario. Mario. Shout out to the history major. Changes in my major, so I completely understand that journey. Yeah. And eventually I stumbled upon economics.

Mario 2

Speaker 1 (07:31.96)
just because I like the idea of trade. You I get something, you get something classic. And what was going through my life was I was really unsure about what I wanted to do. And I was actually inspired by somebody who was an entrepreneur at the University of Arizona at the time. He wanted to bring, he wanted to bring his culture of clothing to the United States for athletic wear. He was from Saudi Arabia.

And his whole goal was to, in a sense, create a vision that, you know, appealed to the apparel of people who wanted to work out, you know, but followed a specific religion. And what I liked is that he wanted to, you know, change it up, immerse cultures, you know, and bring people together. And that's how I was really inspired. I didn't start the company with him. He just kind of told me the idea.

and I was kind of hooked. And that's where I first got, you know, inspired by entrepreneurship and the idea of starting something that could really help people. know.

Hold the Reu.

this time.

Speaker 1 (08:44.63)
younger even nineteen.

Okay. And why... Okay, so...

You're from California, Correct. That's where you grew up? Correct.

the U of A.

Well, I the campus. I didn't, I wanted to get out of the Cal, I wanted to get out of California and go to college somewhere else. and the university of Arizona, I really liked the campus. I liked the business school when I toured and I liked the academics. Okay. big a can't get, can't ignore that. Right. Exactly. and so the real you've the university of Arizona to this day, we're very thankful for their support. Gotcha. but I learned that would learn that later on.

Speaker 1 (09:25.4)
Yeah, I really like the campus and a lot of people from California too.

campus

That's a beautiful. Yeah, is. Yeah. Well, so I do a lot of.

photography and that's where I do a lot of my photography at just because I'm big into cars and architecture and the architecture there is I don't know you don't see that like you don't see that on the East Coast you don't see that like if you go to California like I've been to the USC campus I'm like wow this is beautiful but something about the here

just sure

Speaker 3 (09:54.062)
campus.

Yeah. the sun.

It's it's.

I can see why students like it, you know. If you look, it's When I drove from L or from New Jersey to L.A., I stopped in Tucson and I think it was somewhere on the south side. I'm like, what an ugly city. I would never move here. And then about a year later, I ended up moving here and the outside. doesn't look like there's anything special here, but then you start seeing the roots. You start seeing the people you start seeing the culture and it's like.

You sound really f***ed at it. I always tell this story.

Speaker 1 (10:24.366)
future.

Speaker 2 (10:28.236)
That's earlier about Colorado. It's like, I don't miss it because I do enjoy it here. You know, there's some things like anybody, know, like the heat, but that's really about it. The people is kind of what brings me back to this place because for Tucson, never would have met Mario. I've never would have met you. I have no roots to Tucson. You know, I moved here, essentially I got kicked out of my dad's house, but

when you were asking me

Speaker 3 (10:37.294)
It's a like.

Speaker 3 (10:46.286)
If it wasn't for

Speaker 2 (10:57.166)
That's why I moved here. know, there really isn't, and there's nothing holding me here either, but I have say, because I meet amazing people like you and all these different opportunities that come up with in Colorado. That's why it's called Colorado because it's a beautiful place. But then you start meeting the people and then you start seeing the culture out there.

different around the country. Everywhere in the country has very specific, unique feel to it.

It is.

Speaker 3 (11:26.648)
Yeah. And it's just, it's not my culture. You know, I go to, but it's.

Colorado not for me, you know, I'm not a gear Realistically, I'm not really big into nature either Why I don't miss it but yeah Tucson it's a it's a beautiful place man. It really is Actually like right now where it's you know, it's cool. It's nice You don't have to worry about the heat even though the heat is gonna come in a little bit

So that's is.

Speaker 1 (11:51.203)
It's on par with California. Yeah. good amount. Most of the time of the year.

Most

the time of

So let's talk a little bit about.

about your friend. Sure. How did you guys meet? How did that friendship kind of came to be? And what were the thoughts? Like, hey, we need to build some.

Speaker 3 (12:05.154)
process as you guys were.

Yeah, so Jesse and I, we just met around campus. He, him and I had a number of classes together. and I just saw him everywhere. You know, I saw him at the library. I saw him, you know, eating lunch and, know, on campus, saw him off campus, you know? so I just started consisting, we seeing him everywhere and I came up to him, Hey, you know, I'm Chris.

introduce myself. I just wanted to say I keep seeing you around campus and I want to know if you want to be friends. Yeah, I mean I was new there. I didn't have many friends, right?

That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (12:46.902)
It's so simple for you. Yeah. Sure, sure.

guys too.

It's just you just go up to someone you're like, hey, know commonality, right? It's just hey, you know, it's like Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's and Mario. That's the way life is you just introduce yourself and that's all you need and so I just introduced myself to Jesse and he was very nice and so we just became friends then and Yeah, things went on from there. Mm-hmm

Me Mario.

Speaker 2 (13:11.184)
And I'm assuming he was in a wheelchair or...

Correct, yeah, he was.

Speaker 1 (13:19.886)
I just, sure, I thought, wow, it's hot here. And I'm sweating just walking to campus. I can't imagine putting in that much effort, upper body strength, and he's a pretty big dude too, pretty strong. I couldn't imagine putting that much strength into going such a wide distance for class every single day in the heat.

So I kind of threw myself into his shoes and I kind of wondered, know, you what would what? Is there any assistance that currently exists that I could maybe help help me with that and I just really really Wanted to provide that the granted I didn't know anything about anything at the time, right? And I just had a curiosity You know of wanting to help people. Yeah

And whether he needed my help or not, that's where it came from. Gotcha. And that's where empathy comes in. Yeah. Putting yourself in someone else's shoes and trying to build something that can ultimately help them.

You know what's funny is right before you guys came, I had a friend of mine, she was going on a trip to Japan. And she does photography too. She's like, hey, can I borrow some lenses that I can take out to Japan? And I was like, sure. So every time we, we always catch up. How are you doing? And we were talking about both of our jobs and she was talking about how she got laid off, how there was no

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:00.558)
You know, there was no like it was just basically, Hey, you know, you go in and then all of a sudden you're out. And I was telling her like my situation work as well too, where it's like, it's always busy. There's always something going on. It feels like they just want more and more and more out of you. And sometimes like either people in position of power or people in positions of management, they

It feels

Speaker 2 (15:29.612)
lose it, but kind of in a culture right now where we're starting to put profit over empathy. And you'll start seeing a lot too, where it's like that friendships, know, relationships work as well too. Pretty much all of our aspects are alive. It's let me see what I can take out of you. So a lot of people are starting to lose the empathetic side that we're just, naturally have as human beings.

Who's that?

Speaker 2 (15:59.49)
You know, if you see someone struggling, you want to try to help them out. We're starting to lose that as a society. We, we don't see as much empathy as we used to before, at least in my eyes. I look, I go to work too. And sometimes they. To do this. So I'm doing this. And as I'm doing that, they want something else done and it starts piling up. And I was like, in my mind, I'm like, what if they knew, you know, how I kind of felt right now, what if they knew.

who you know.

They're like, hey, we want you.

Speaker 3 (16:19.778)
Yeah

Speaker 3 (16:29.794)
that all this work that is being ...

that I'm given to me, how much extra stress it's coming to me. I'm not trying to sound like a baby, but true, know, people and people are stressed out, people are, and it's why, you know, part of it too is we're starting to lose that empathetic side just as a society in general.

And it's kind of sad. So when you start...

hearing stories like yours where it's put myself in someone else's shoe for a minute and let me see how they navigate through life. And it's hard. One of the things I love doing is anytime happen all the time, but whenever I have the energy to do it is if, you know, I'm driving and I come to an intersection and there's someone with a sign, I'll have a conversation with them. Just want to know how they got to that point or just

like, let me just.

Speaker 3 (17:03.864)
You

doesn't have

Speaker 3 (17:21.55)
Try to make

make them smile just because you don't know what that person needs in that moment. Sometimes they just need a dollar, sometimes they need a conversation, sometimes they just want to vent. And then we need to start doing that more just as human beings. That's Friedman. That's what I love about him. Even though he's kind of monotone, I love that because very, very smart person, but you can tell where his heart is.

That's why I love like we're talking about like

Speaker 3 (17:43.277)
He's a

Speaker 2 (17:49.838)
Imagine if we had more people like that where actually more people cared about what's going on in Ukraine What's going on in Russia? What's going on all these different parts in the world? You know we need more of that Anything special you know you don't have to be a a grand you know YouTube channel podcast or have this big company. It's like Need to be a human being everything everything lines up, and I'm sure that's what exactly what's going on with you

You know, and doesn't have to be any-

Speaker 3 (18:10.688)
you just

And I'll

Speaker 1 (18:17.582)
Yeah. know, empathy is very important. and that's come that I say empathy comes before the idea, right? You know, you have to recognize that, you know, life isn't always just about yourself. You have to ask questions. Like we said, stay curious. and yeah, I wish we, I wish we had a lot more of that. I wish that more displays of empathy and affection and

so on and so forth was more available. Whether they reported on the news or good deed for the day. Maybe a new segment about that would be fantastic. I can get on board with that. Just overall goodness, being kind.

And that comes along with, sadly, not everyone is content. Not everyone can agree. I would say that it's based on perspective. I would say, George, that Whole Foods really values you. They really value your experience. So they may want you to do more. They've been there for years. You know where everything is. You know the people.

can see.

Speaker 1 (19:32.878)
And so, you know, that's the thing. It's all about perspective. guess you're But we can always, you know, do better, you know, but, you know, I think that it's, but I think people should keep in mind the idea of natural goodness, I like to call it. And that was, you know, why we started this company and that why we're going to keep to that, you know, our slogan is empowering those in need.

So as you were building it, were building it, you were telling us you were building a small little area. How was that like? Tiny. That's like a, like a what? Like a Steve Jobs story,

Sure.

Sure, yeah, we were in the middle of Tucson, East Tucson in the middle of the desert. And that's all that we college students could afford. Going back to my story of my first experience with the first business I got involved in, that business did not do well. However, I made a very close friend that would eventually help me in my next business. Literally his name is Thomas Jefferson.

And he was an engineer currently he was engineer at the time at howman and he helped me build the product Would eventually when we got started so I like to say I thought of the idea but to be honest I like to give everybody credit we all thought of it and we built the product in a small warehouse with no air conditioning and the dead set of the Tucson Arizona heat, you know the hot and we just decided to

Speaker 1 (21:08.738)
come together and say, hey, let's try and execute this. We ordered parts from China, you on Amazon, and we just try to bootstrap it. And that's bootstrapping your own device and your own product, that it really connects you with what you're building, because you're spending your hard earned money on it, and you're spending your hard earned time, most importantly. So when I did that, my grades did kind of suffer a little bit because,

Naturally, found something more passionate, I was more passionate about than economics. And I decided to pursue that. So eventually we built it, tested it. And when the world shut down during COVID, we got sponsored by the university and they helped us even further.

How was that? What was that?

like.

We asked. We asked, we met some criteria and they said, sure.

Speaker 3 (22:00.046)
That was it. That's it.

Speaker 3 (22:05.464)
Was there a specific

department that you had to go to or it was just kind of like a normal conversation.

Yes, we had to go through a specific department. There was a process for startups and companies who wanted something built. That also cost us a little bit of money, yes. They helped us build our prototype. They got us a team of brilliant student engineers to come together. I got to handpick my team personally and they were all stars. So this day I owe them everything.

They're still over there.

I believe they already graduated. It was part of the capstone project. Every senior engineering class has to do a capstone project. eventually, you know, they helped us with it. They helped build the prototype. During COVID, we met virtually and in person with masks on. That was the mandate. Whether you agree or disagree with that. And during that process, the university ended up

Speaker 1 (23:09.186)
giving us a legal team to go along with that to help patent the product as well. the engineering school and Roger School of Law also helped us during that process.

That is that that's that's.

That's incredible, It's nice hearing that too because...

We were able to build something out of, it actually worked. That was the crazy part. I didn't expect this to work for a number of years, but it actually worked.

Scrap from scratch. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (23:37.272)
So now, doubt on your side. Of course. Yeah. they're,

Actually there was

always is, mean even with this podcast too.

We were always gonna doubt ourselves When you start seeing the results come in and you start to see Sure, it was kind of a point where you're like, wow, this is actually happening. This is real This is not just you know, we're not in our garage anymore. We're not you know, there's there's actual There's an actual team behind it. There's an actual sponsorship behind this as well, What was that point for you?

Yeah. But.

Speaker 3 (23:50.7)
I'm sure we'll

Speaker 3 (24:06.648)
What was that?

Speaker 1 (24:10.946)
be honest, I don't think I've gotten there yet. I mean, that's the thing. We have a website. We're always a work in progress. We have a great team. The team has been here since the founding, since five years ago. So we're pretty old startup. We've been around, you know, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. know, stay farm.

Most importantly, it was very, yeah, still haven't gone to that point. I don't know.

Okay, no, I mean I just ask you because that's the same thing that I'm I wouldn't say searching it kind of became

cuz

Speaker 2 (24:49.974)
with me when I was doing an episode with with Mario and it just kind of came together I was like wow

This is, you know, a silly... No, I mean, you know what? We have a lot of... It's not that we...

lot of serious conversations. and Mario, we, it's not like the old Joe Rogan, right? Where you, you listen in, there's a lot of just, nonsense. We're just kind of two guys, but.

I wouldn't even say this is just, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:16.396)
when I would hear some of the things that come out of that Mario would say and I was like, this isn't just me anymore. now, yeah, there's, there's small right now. this is real. You know, this isn't, we now owe it to people to have good conversations on here that people can use in their daily life. And people do, you know, I look at the numbers and I'm like,

behind you.

even though it's...

Speaker 3 (25:31.896)
This

You know, this is what we're do.

Speaker 3 (25:46.338)
You know, it's nothing... No, it is to me and it is to him as well.

Spectacular, but I'm like...

too because there's people listening from out of the country. I don't know how their English is, but they're staying on. They're coming every other week to listen. So no, this is real. Sometimes we kind of put ourselves as of person anymore to military school, right? And I went to school with a lot of guys. became doctors. They became officers in the military. They've gone through

as sometimes it's down and I'm not the type of you know, I went to

Speaker 2 (26:20.206)
all these really cool things and sometimes I'm like, dang, what am I doing with my life? But then I'm like, no, know, exactly there's that doubt coming in. And then I'm like, I don't need to doubt myself. I know who I am as a person. Of course we all have flaws and there are certain flaws we can fix. There are certain flaws that we can't. but now we were doing something as small as it may be. We're doing something to try to make this world a little bit better.

No doubt.

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:49.802)
And in the day, that's what it's all about. Exactly.

at the end.

continuous journey.

Speaker 1 (26:59.118)
It's been great being able to just share perspective, share life, all that, the different things that we're able to talk about. And George is amazing, and I've had a lot of fun being able to, the one time we had that long episode for two hours.

Always, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Only.

experiences have just been nothing but wonderful.

It's yeah, but you off that episode that we did a we had a couple drinks cuz we're like See how it goes and we're like we thought trial and error. Yeah, we're like we Podcast I never want to limit anybody To the things that they do the things that they've experienced as long as we're not fighting Then you can say whatever you want this. That's what this platform is about but we're like

Speaker 3 (27:20.352)
It's a me.

Speaker 3 (27:29.667)
Because the thing is on this

Speaker 2 (27:46.754)
See a bunch of other podcasts where people, know, they'll do a bunch of crazy stuff or like couple drinks. Let's see how it goes. And it ended up being, we, it was going to be like a silly episode. You know, we were just going to say nonsense, but it ended up, we almost cried during that episode. Like we had to physically hold back our tears, because we got such in a deep conversation and that's where we're like, all right, yeah, this is, this is real no matter how may seem to us. but no, this, this is

Let's just have a couple.

guitar

Speaker 3 (28:01.123)
Finish.

Speaker 3 (28:11.224)
Billy Im-

Yeah, I think that it just goes back and just working extremely hard, you know, and just never giving up no matter what the doubt is, no matter what the situation. You know, I don't have a lot of experience in the medical device industry. I was just a kid with a dream. And I was just a kid who just wanted to help people, the world. And so naturally, I think I feel like I...

connect with others pretty well. So I just wanted to get a team together and just really just share that vision. Because they, other people, no matter who I talk to, whether it's my own team, whether it's somebody else in Minnesota, somebody in New Jersey, they can all offer, know, a customer, they can all offer their opinions. And we can always learn. We can always improve because, right, know, the medical devices,

are not perfect, you know, but there are they as perfect as they can be. Yes.

And we live in a Sure.

Speaker 2 (29:17.838)
time right now too, where it's not like how was in the 80s, 90s where technology is starting to, know, it's infancy, but it wasn't as good as it was now. The only thing now is it's getting better, and it's not only getting better, but it's tremendously better. You have so many resources now. You have YouTube, have everything.

No one's saying to-

Speaker 3 (29:40.546)
You have everything. You have AI, have chat GBT, you have so many things.

I first started this podcast. It was all handwritten or typed. would have to type everything. Now I just plug it into a software and it does everything for me. And it makes my life so much easier too. And I'm sure it, especially with you, it's only going to get easier and easier. As time goes on, technology starts becoming more available, as things start getting a little bit cheaper or expensive, there's more access to information.

And that's also going off that, that's also what we're trying to do is, devices exist out there that can help people and they do help people. I give a lot of credit to our competitors. However, I think we can do better in terms of costs, in terms of accessibility, in terms of promoting, empowering and for independence, if you're wheelchair bound. I think that's what ultimately we're trying to do.

trying to be, again, customer service. Customer service is everything. Yes, the product, you can have the best product in the world, but if a customer can't get to you because it breaks down or if they're having difficulties, that's frustration. That's a lot of frustration as technology advances. If there's fraud on your credit card or your debit card, how many people would you have to, how long does it take to get somebody on the phone? And how frustrated are people gonna be? But that's just the world we live in.

bringing back some of that old school mentality of trying to be similar to our competitors, but better in some ways. And I think we can do that through great products and great customer service.

Speaker 2 (31:25.698)
Have they ever reached out, any of your competitors?

No, not yet. don't kind of hope they don't. But no, not yet. Not yet. They're they're really big companies, you know, making hundreds of millions, if not billion dollars in revenue. And they haven't reached out. I'm kind of glad they don't, because I want to make sure my team, my group and my customers are focused on us.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:58.65)
and providing them the best service that we can. Like I said, don't have, I'm not wheelchair-bound. I don't have lot of experience running a company, but what do I do? I have two ears and a mouth. I can listen, I can learn. What's really helping or hurting people? What can we improve? What can we improve that's making their lives better? And what can we improve that's not?

And so it's just about continuous improvement for us.

What is some of the

feedback that some of your customers have said.

about us or our product or our...

Speaker 3 (32:38.604)
the project.

here's the thing. You have to take the good with the bad. A lot of good things is great. know, I look forward to bringing, I look forward to help bringing this to market. I talked to a customer who had three revision knee surgeries and she's wheelchair bound right now. She's in New Jersey and just getting to know their stories, getting to know what they're using because they are using our competitors. And they tell me, Hey, you know, I bought this

for $6,000 six months ago, it's broken and the company's trying to make us pay another $6,000. And so maybe, I don't know, giving a lifetime warranty to pre-orders, maybe I can get in trouble by saying that, but just throwing ideas out there, You can keep that, you can keep that. just really, just...

I'd say a lot of people are concerned with two things. Mostly, the biggest thing is price. Medical devices are expensive. Wheelchairs, manual wheelchairs, insurance covers fully. Electric wheelchairs, they cover, but not to the full extent of manual, and it's a fight to get those electric wheelchairs. Most people, a lot of people, if it's not prescribed by a doctor, they have to pay out of pocket.

Right now electric wheelchair, manual and electric, they range, prices range from $1,200 to around $15,000, $30,000 of the custom made. Now granted, we're not trying to be an electric wheelchair company. We're trying to help those who have manual wheelchairs. Maybe they don't need electric wheelchairs at this point, but those who have severe disabilities, cerebral palsy,

Speaker 1 (34:40.726)
you know, people who really needed, they should get one. Absolutely. But we're trying to be a bridge between that just to improve their quality of life.

So I'll see you guys around.

on the market right now. there a timeline that you guys are giving yourself where...

Yes, we're giving ourselves a year and a half to bring this to market. That's FDA approved, 510K process. We're trying to also thinking about brainstorming about reimbursement as well through Medicare and Medicaid to help with some of those on onset costs. But we're trying to, we are going to make our product cheaper than our competitor, no doubt.

So right now basically is a time to get as much information from the people, from the other companies as well, to what you can do to lower that cost and making sure that it's efficient.

Speaker 3 (35:27.212)
and you guys.

Speaker 1 (35:33.154)
Yes, making sure it's efficient, making sure it's durable.

Exactly. Like a Toyota, essentially. Yeah, like, you know, it's funny, I was talking to Mario a little bit about cars.

You that's one of the things I worked in the car. my God, I love it. worked in the car. And we'll not.

I love my Honda.

industry for a long time. Not for long time, but I worked for it when I was in my early 20s. that's one of the things that you start seeing from the person is making sure that this product is durable. Making sure and that the price is there.

Speaker 1 (35:50.99)
It's amazing.

Speaker 3 (35:59.906)
the con.

Speaker 1 (36:06.19)
And that the quality is there. And healthcare people associate price and quality. you know, making it affordable but without sacrificing quality, has to work. And we're going through strict FTE regulations to make sure that it works.

There's

Speaker 3 (36:22.818)
And how does that work? How does that?

at work working with the FDA. I'm it's not, I'm sure.

It's not. much time do have?

We have all the you have

as much time as

Speaker 1 (36:31.436)
Yeah, it's quite a long process. You have to file. I'm not quite detailed right now on the matter. I believe they send somebody to test it. have to have data showing that it is safe, that it's effective, and that it works.

You know, I believe the three questions are, does it make the patient feel better? Does it make the patient function better? Does it improve longevity of life? Well, we're in that functional category. So through that, you know, we're pretty optimistic about that.

See, you're saying

a year and a half, like from now.

Year and a half to now to get to market. Expediting everything without rushing the quality. Because that's key. Because we're actually sending out free products. See prototypes to people, our first 10 people. And we're asking them, OK, great. You've used it for X amount of weeks, months. What do you love about it? What can we improve upon?

Speaker 3 (37:28.152)
takes.

Speaker 3 (37:40.312)
How do you?

those people.

they ask. Yeah, why not? I don't see why not.

that's it? Okay.

Okay. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's wonderful. We just I thought. Especially. Yeah, most most.

Speaker 2 (37:50.616)
That's actually, see like, I always thought.

Those companies don't do that. Yeah. No, we're just, hey, you feel like you need our product, we'll send it out to you as long as you give honest, incredible feedback.

And see, I like that. I love YouTube because...

I know.

Like you said, usually there's something attached to it. know, we give you, but hey, say all the things about it first to, or. You know, most companies, know, it was just kind of like a silly example. Like, when I was younger, I used to watch a lot of like call of duty videos and stuff like that. And a lot of times, you know, as a new call of duty is coming to be, they, they give it to people. Be like, Hey, here's our product, but talk about it.

Speaker 3 (38:15.56)
this hey you know what you could

Speaker 3 (38:22.712)
Most most plate.

Speaker 3 (38:40.365)
Make sure you.

in a positive way, you know? And it's refreshing hearing where it's like, but you have to be selected too, not only that, but now hearing, and obviously this is completely different, but hearing how you say you need it, just give us honest feedback. That's all we ask. Yeah. And it's so simple as well. Send me an email. we make your life better? And let's use that information.

Yeah, send us an email.

Speaker 3 (39:02.976)
And sometimes that's how it's supposed to You know, it's like how

Speaker 2 (39:11.095)
And let's actually do make it, let's make it lot better as we can as well too. It's a beautiful thing, man, because.

as much

My team, we're small enough as a startup where we can do that. It gets harder as you grow, naturally, because there's chain of command people follow. But if I can get, if I can get hands-on experience just interacting with customers, and I'll always carry that, because I'm always personable. As much as I can to talk to people, I will. And I'll always get to know their story and why they choose to use our product or why they choose not to use our product.

And that's just why.

So now.

Speaker 2 (39:53.132)
working basically in the medical field, essentially. Like, what is that? I know a lot of people had their pros and cons, especially how our healthcare is compared to, you know, let's just say healthcare in Europe. It's obviously something completely different, or in Canada, or in Japan, or wherever it might be, China, wherever it might be.

What is that?

Speaker 3 (40:17.752)
feel like our

our healthcare system is unique, good and bad. How do you feel working in

You know?

Speaker 1 (40:27.618)
I feel good. mean, I'm sure everyone in the healthcare field hopefully is in there because they want to help people and improve patient outcomes. That's something that's very important. know, doctor, everyone who's in there, doctors, nurses, hospital staff, they take oaths and they work hard every single day.

Now I'm personally not in the healthcare field yet. Right. Right. But

eventually going to be a part of that.

Correct from the outside looking in I just want to make sure that our products make their lives as much easier as as easy as I can it's easy as my team and my company can because The priority is the patient and the priority is making sure the patient patient feels better, know functions better and lives longer, you know, and we can our goal is to provide them with a device that does that you know where

nurses and eventually hopefully clinics and nursing homes and assisted living facilities and eventually veterans as well. They're very much included in that to provide them with higher quality life and accessibility. yeah, they play such a big role and I'm just honored to be kind of indirectly a part of that.

Speaker 3 (41:50.274)
Yeah. It's a...

It's a

I would say it's like a big, big step, going from just a university student to now where you're at now. It's a huge, huge, it's, not to downplay myself, I work at Costco and I tell everybody.

No, and it's a great

Great, company, great company.

Speaker 1 (42:13.452)
My dad said there's always nice people, there's always great people. Yeah, yeah. You have to. But that's why people keep going to Costco. My dad goes weekly because what? He's like, they're so nice.

yeah, you- you- you happy?

Speaker 2 (42:23.914)
My thing is, a lot of that can be fake and I'm a big believer in it shouldn't be that way. You know, I'm very lucky where just my type of personality, I can always, if I get a rude person, I can always defuse that situation. It's just how I am.

Sure.

Speaker 3 (42:45.87)
Well, I will- I-

I never used to be that way or I wasn't always that way. You know, through therapy and just through running this podcast, learning how to be empathetic, you learn how to, you know, if someone has a problem, didn't, know, let's, let's figure out some way we can resolve this. And this is actually going to go into what we'll be talking about next. so you have to be that way, but sometimes like, love my mom, but she's a manager at Costco and I was kind of telling her, you know,

of listening. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:14.574)
because I started in the front end. I didn't even start in the meat department, but they're like, hey, you have meat department experience, we'll just bring you out there. But anyways, but before that, I was in the front end helping people load their things into the cashier, and I was telling my mom about that, I was like, yeah, actually, I love that. It was a lot of fun, it was something completely different, I'd never done anything like that, working in retail for a long time, and it was cool, because I would talk to people and, you know.

It was nice having those small interactions with people. she's like, I hated it. Like I hated how like I had to be nice to them and I'm like, it shouldn't be. You know, like if, if, you know, you should be nice to be nice. You shouldn't be nice because you're forced to, you know, but obviously she did it smart. She got herself out of that situation and then she went into management where she doesn't have to deal with people directly. but yeah, you know, a lot of that can be fake from what, least from what I see, you know, a lot of times I'll hear.

That way, like...

Speaker 2 (44:11.822)
You know, I don't really talk smack about the customers because you know, they don't know they don't know you know the common person isn't gonna know a huge difference between a New York strip and a rib eye or a Top Round and a Chuck Roast steak They're not that's why they ask questions so and I've seen this so many times in retail where you'll have a Coworker and they're like, I can't believe they didn't know the difference between this and that I'm like who's gonna have the time for that. That's why we're here. You know, we're here to

Provide that information now. I've know so much about meat that I can be like hey this specific part Comes from this part of the cow and this is why you know It needs to be cooked this way because if not, you know, blah blah blah But I enjoy sharing that information with people now because I can you know, I have that information to share When I was 20, I didn't know the difference between the leg the back leg of the cow and the front leg of the cow But now over the years now I do so now let me provide that information, you know, if they don't know cool

That's what we're there for. But yeah, it can be fake a lot of times. And you know, they'll usually just talk smack about the customers. I'm like, why? You know, why be that way? know, and a lot of, start noticing a lot of it, it's just, there's something going on inside.

You

Speaker 1 (45:26.318)
You never know what people are experiencing. You never know how someone else's day is going.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Speaker 2 (45:35.626)
Exactly. Well, and I shared this story a lot of times too when I was in Colorado I was working one day and I just did not want to be there I was having a horrible day, dude And I was actually going to therapy at that time too because I needed it. I that's where I was really I was really depressed at that time and I Remember I was helping this lady out and she didn't say anything special She's just like let me get whatever it was that she wanted wrapped it up for gave it to her and she smiled

in a really

Speaker 2 (46:04.502)
And I shit you not man like that smile just overcame my body and It was like I don't know. don't know like looking at an angel. You know just for some reason all that anxiety all that you know Pumped up energy that I had it all went away And I was like this lady doesn't know what she did or maybe she did I don't know but am I in my mind I'm like she didn't know

what she did. She literally made my day just by smiling at me. And it made a huge difference from that day on. So yeah, you don't know what people are going through. Sometimes it can be just a smile. Sometimes it can be a conversation. Sometimes it might be more than that as well too. So that's how we have to pay attention. But sometimes we have to train ourselves that way too. If I see someone sad, I want to know why they're sad. Why? Because

maybe in some way I can help. You know, maybe it's just listening. Maybe it's trying to give advice. Maybe they've been through something similar that I've been through and now I can offer some sort of advice or sometimes people just need, they just need an ear. They just need someone that they can vent to. It's like, okay, cool, I'm here for that. So yeah, we don't know. We don't know what people are going through and sometimes we need to be a little bit more mindful, but.

A lot of times we're not, a lot of times we're so wrapped in what's going on in our life that we forget about other people. And sometimes that's where that bitterness comes in, where it's like, okay, I don't really care what's going on in your life. And it's like, okay, well, you know, that's something you have to work on yourself. But it is work. It is a lot of trial and error. And that's why I started this podcast as well too, because a lot of people that listen, there are a lot of guys and they're anywhere from 18 to 21.

And man, I made a lot of mistakes during those times. Mario too, you know? So we share those stories because they're important, know? Especially for younger guys, it's important to address those things as early as we can so then we don't have those same habits as we grow into our later 20s, 30s, and so on and so forth. You know?

Speaker 3 (48:22.87)
Exactly.

Fail, fail forward.

So, and going on to that, I know you guys probably had some setbacks over the years. What were some of those setbacks and how did you overcome them?

How much time do you have? Big setback early on was, building it funding. didn't, I didn't have, you know, we didn't have any money, you know, broke college students. I'm going to kind of, it's kind of the theme. Yeah. But when you're in college is, is, yeah, very much. But yeah, I remember distinctly what I used to do is I used to stock trade. I used to options trade. And so that

paid for a lot of the devices themselves. So I was able to.

Speaker 1 (49:13.678)
work a little bit during the summer and then and focus on school as well. So I'm a school and come back and use that money to options trade and pay for some of the tools and stuff like that. Um, that was, yeah, I, I was option trading in class. I was options trading out of class, but I would, I started with a little bit of money, just a couple hundred dollars. And then I would grow it to eventually a cover, cover the, uh,

prototype expenses, which were astronomical in looking back. So that, guess a little bit of luck. Persistence.

Bye.

But you see

how, like you said, the theme.

Speaker 1 (50:00.886)
I couldn't I couldn't really couldn't get a job. Mm-hmm. You know college I have I I took five years I said five years at the University of the uva because I and every time I Did that you know, I Did struggle, you know? It's in class. I just struggled so I had to do five years change my major late And a lot of a lot of a lot of college students also change their major very very late as well You know, I changed my major economics my junior year

And then next thing you know, I have to take three different math, four different math courses where I was history and I have take any. So a lot of time, a lot of summers.

that were worth it.

Yeah, in class, doing math, doing out, doing calculus, like, it was a lot. But I would say cost early on was the biggest hurdle. When you don't have any money, it's hard to start a company. And it's hard to get people to invest in an idea. And I guess you just have to find a way, no matter what. And that goes into never giving up. Second one, which is probably the most important than the first, was finding the right people.

A lot of people have good ideas, a lot of people have great products, a lot of people have great, you know, a of people want to do great things, they'll sometimes, maybe they'll bring on the wrong person.

Speaker 2 (51:27.838)
And I can understand that. Yeah. It's and I, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off, but with this podcast, one of my hurdles, finding the right person, finding the right cohost, you know, he, he, he stays quiet a lot of time, but there's something cooking inside. I know there's, there's, we'll find out right now, but, you know, it came to a point

was

Speaker 1 (51:40.814)
It was great.

Speaker 2 (51:57.646)
I needed someone else. I'm like I can't do this I can't do these solo episodes by myself because I'm just repeating myself over and over the same stories are coming out I need someone, you know with a different perspective coming in and sharing that perspective as well, too and it's funny because I Was working at Whole Foods. I think Mario just came on second time second time. Yeah working with this one guy and

air.

Speaker 3 (52:22.595)
So I was.

Every single time I enjoyed working with him because every time that we worked with each other, we would just talk the whole entire shift and we would just laugh and I was, we would like share these, you know, stories from our childhood. We basically lived the same life, but he grew up here in Tucson or Marana. And obviously I grew up in New Jersey. So we're sharing all these funny stories, cracking up the whole entire time. And eventually I'm like, I was like, dude, I need a cohost man. Like I would love you to be on my podcast.

Dude, and we're just.

Speaker 2 (52:54.762)
And then he's like, he's like, nah, he's like, I don't want to, he's like, I don't really listen to podcasts. I don't really, you know, this is not my thing. And so I'm like, I was like, damn dude, like, you know, I really wanted that guy to be on my, on my podcast as a cohost. And I started seeing Mario around all the time and I,

the

Speaker 3 (53:21.1)
I'm a big person where a lot of

We didn't have anything to do at Whole Foods. So just go walk around and talk to people in conversations with Mario Deep conversations in the break room and then I'm like, I hold up Let me ask this guy, you know, was like, what do you think about being up on a podcast and he was kind of Then I was like just do one episode we did one episode and that was it man. I was it I was like, I already I knew I found my guy man. I'm glad I didn't go with the first

So I just started having conversations with Mario, and then we started having these...

Speaker 3 (53:42.818)
Got the Colette first, but...

Speaker 3 (53:51.662)
because

It wouldn't be a serious podcast. It wouldn't be true what the podcast holds on to, to talking about deep things, you know. And that was it ever since, you know.

Yeah, you are who you surround yourself with. And big factor of that. exactly.

Exactly.

Speaker 3 (54:15.16)
So that's why I need the right.

I can understand when

I mean, yeah, not only was he an engineer, so strategically I said, I gotta get this guy to join me. But he ended up just being the best person to join the team critically at that point. And he's still on the team, we've brought on other people. But everyone on my team currently, the four of us, as well as a couple of advisors, they've all at one point gone to UVA, University of Arizona.

That's one thing that kind of...

Matt,

Speaker 1 (54:48.27)
commonality we all have. And it was it was a whole year and half where I didn't even tell my current co-founder Kyle that I was even starting this. We just started brainstorming of a company and idea. And eventually a few months later, said, hey, I'm actually doing something like would you what do you think about this? What's your perspective?

You know, so I didn't bring it around them until for a couple months, because I was just seeing, you know, yeah, they're right, they're right, they're right. And so that's what a lot of companies try to do. I feel like you want to hire the right people. You want to hire the right people. A lot for culture, because you can teach anybody, you can teach most people technical skills. Most people can catch on to those. It's the personality, it's who, it's, okay, how do they handle things?

You want to make sure who is it? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:45.772)
So culture's big, if not everything, in my opinion.

I think it's one of the biggest things. For example, and I just talk about it.

Anywhere you were, now it's like...

Speaker 3 (55:58.228)
No, great. But I always refer to it.

Doctors have to be smart. You want the best. You're right.

you know, things like that culture, anything like that. I like talking about grocery stores because I've worked in so many different grocery stores and in the culture and it's basically the same in almost every grocery store. The front end is their own people. The deli is their own people. The meat department is their own people. Now you start looking at the meat department people.

you start seeing

Speaker 3 (56:28.308)
more... what would I say... the word that...

How it comes up is kind of, I wouldn't say grotesque, but you work around meat, you work around blood. it's manly things, we'll talk more about manlier things, and that's usually how it ends up being. The guys that I work with, a lot of them are into BMX, they're into, one of the guys is he likes reptiles, he likes all this, he likes

more of a

Speaker 2 (57:01.214)
What are you going on quads and going on into the mountains and exploring and just like You know things like that to the deli and the deli is more it's kind of a mixture in between of of meat department and kind of front end almost where it's like You have just a bunch of different type of people. You'll have your cooks your

You go.

Speaker 3 (57:21.656)
some more of your...

I wouldn't say degenerates, you know, they've been through things in life, you know?

You talk to some of the cooks and you're like, oh, this dude's, know, he's probably got a couple DUIs. He's probably, you know, he's probably like, yeah, exactly. Because it's how it's how.

Like, in the end.

Speaker 1 (57:38.328)
You

He's probably in a band or you know into

Speaker 2 (57:47.82)
It just naturally runs like I'm sure you go to an IHOP you talk to the cooks and I'm sure they have some stories. Now you go to the front end now it's kind of feminine you know because there's a lot of girls at work there so they'll talk you know they dress up a little bit nicer than like me you know I dress up decent but you know I don't want to get my good clothes dirty so you know I just kind of whatever clothes I work but dress nicer they're more sophisticated.

front end people are

They're more.

They got to be around the customers a little bit more. So, you know, they have to be a little bit nicer, more presentable. Your management, you know.

They're more, I would say, they're very, they...

Speaker 2 (58:26.158)
it's.

Speaker 2 (58:31.352)
They like looking at things. very observant. That's the perfect word. They're very observant because they have to manage. They have to make sure things run smoothly. Your bakery, you know, that's you.

free

Speaker 3 (58:43.939)
where a lot of the girls work.

You know, that's just right. That's usually how it is. You know, it's more feminine there.

Your produce people, they're more, yeah, they're more quieter.

You know, they're kind of they have their own little section to the store There you know, they'll have a conversation with you but they're Now, you know back of the house people You know more stern, you know because they got to bring the product in they have to make sure everything You know, they can't cut any corners. They have to make sure that everything is You know if it comes in They have to make sure everything that comes in can go out

or they're usually just they're kind of more reserved.

Speaker 3 (59:09.272)
They're more...

Speaker 2 (59:25.526)
You know, so that's kind of how like the anatomy or the culture of a grocery store kind of works But it's funny, you know because I go to Whole Foods same or like the Whole Foods in Colorado Springs The same exact thing, you know talking to the meat guys. They're more like I said grotesque. They're You know mainly kind of guys You know the cooks, you know, they're a story man. I was talking to this one cook They always have stories always have stories. So one of the cooks there

more.

Speaker 3 (59:47.182)
I'll tell you a little story.

Speaker 2 (59:55.576)
He was a cop in Mexico and he was telling me how, I'm like, what are you doing out here? Why are you, how come you came to the US instead of being a cop in Mexico? He was like, the cartel put a hit on me and my family and we had to leave. So he was starting to tell me these stories about the cartels and all the things that they did over there and I was like, guy's got some stories, man. Yeah, go ahead.

So that's just kind of like the culture is a very very big thing, know anywhere you work it's it's it's one of the most important things that We we might not recognize but every little place has its own little culture as well, too

And that's, and that's, it's important. mean, with, with EMG, I'm always ensuring that everybody's heard, you know, right now there's only four, five, five of us in the company. And I'm always making sure that, you know, I'm always making sure that I'm listening actively listening to them. Cause they only not, they not only, they not only know the vision and are trying to bring it to life, but they,

add to it, they contribute. And that's, that's, it's such a beautiful thing. because we all get along. And if somebody doesn't agree with, the decision, or maybe I decide to make a decision that everyone agrees on, I want to know why, you know, and then I politely tell them, well, this is why, this is why we're going in this direction. Cause not everyone's going to agree or not everyone knows going back to the customer. So, but

I think it's really big to know your product and know your research and know where you can make an impact.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50.186)
fooling yourself to believing something's true when it's not.

That's a heavy hitter right That's heavy hitter. I'm sure that's something I... yeah.

Sure.

Sure, because I you can always find something where someone X on the internet says this, but in reality there's 30 years worth of data that shows otherwise. So it's just always to just know your why and know that, try to get everyone on board. And there's always going to be conflict. Sometimes the conflict might arise, but that's your duty to rise above it, to listen to somebody and to know that well you're...

Ultimately doing is the right decision. We all make mistakes, but yeah, just believing in yourself and believing that, especially with my team, with EMG, making sure that they're all accounted for and they approve of what I'm doing too. I can be, yeah, I'm a co-founder of the company, but I also have another co-founder and...

Speaker 1 (01:03:04.65)
as we grow eventually, yeah, when we get bigger, I could be replaced if I'm not doing my job. I could get pushed out. So if I'm not coming through for my customers, if I'm not coming through for my team, and my shareholders, I could be.

guess we can get bigger.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23.382)
As simply as do what you have to do. Yeah, you can be replaced because there's someone else.

He put it as, you don't

Sure.

That's life. So I do the best what I can for the best of my ability. I always listen to my customers first. That is, again, that's for me, that's big. Because they have, because their hearts are pure. And they know that my team and I, we all have pure intent. And so problem is, is as you grow, people don't always have that.

It's just natural.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57.89)
Right, right, right. know, eventually you get so big. you can build, you can try to control that as much as possible as you grow. I think Apple, Google, they all do a spectacular job.

How something like that? Say somebody, you're all going into this one direction, And this one person doesn't agree with it. How do you deal with that? How do you resolve something like

in your

Speaker 1 (01:04:22.766)
I listened to them. You know, the first question, number one is why? Why don't you agree with it? know, actually there was one instance with one of my co-founders, with Kyle, we disagreed on the direction whether we wanted to focus more on hardware or software for medical devices. We figured, well, why don't we do both in a sense? Why don't we focus on the hardware?

Cause that's our roots. Those are our roots. So hardware is, you know, bringing new products to market that you can physically touch, physically hold. That's our roots. We will always be that. But why don't we bring software that can improve those roots that can improve contribute to the O to what we're building that can maybe hook onto your Apple watch, you know, and tell you how much battery left you have in the chair, what the distance is, you know, on a full chart.

or on how much battery you have left, how many miles, right? So you don't have to guess. Things like that, know, things like that, you know. I thought of a crazy idea of...

somehow building and integrating a site where people can put in their insurance information and they'll know how much exactly our product will cost out of pocket. You know, they can just tell you I'm with, I'm with, you know, or I'm with Blue Cross Blue Shield, United, whatever, you know, and they can just kind of put it in. I'll obviously have to talk about that with the insurance companies. That's a pretty. Yeah, because you're holding customer information at that point, but

Blue Cross Booth.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01.378)
Yeah, that's a step.

You know, they can put it in, can know, you know, given my insurance, my insurance covers 80 % of it, 90 % of it. Before you even, before you even, because insurance, because insurance naturally is, you know, it's always typically a no, you know, until it's yes. Unless you really need something as an emergency. So what we're doing is we're trying to be able to skip that step, you know, where they can just view it on our website, put in their information, view it on the website.

So keep it SM.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35.726)
Oh, they pay for 80%. You don't have to talk to insurance. You can just buy it and we can give you something to bring your insurance company. We'll see.

I think that's You're saying resolving that conflict. Yeah He's gonna be conflict and especially as you grow there's always gonna be more and more

Not to the way especially like

because there's always

Speaker 1 (01:06:56.566)
serve the products and try to also serve the techniques, the system, the middle, you know, in all facets.

And one of the things too is, start to realize, sure you know this now where not everybody's gonna think the same way you think. No matter how smart they're gonna be. we have to take account into how other people think because that's how we grow. If we just stay close-minded, we're not gonna grow, we're not gonna prosper in anything.

especially you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17.42)
I want them to challenge me.

Exactly, we had

Speaker 1 (01:07:27.854)
We just launched our meta, we did a two month trial marketing campaign, January of this year to about, not halfway through January to about.

February, March. And we found one guy, I remember one individual, which we did pretty well. I was surprised on how much attention we got. And some of our customers didn't believe it. They thought that our company was a fairy tale. They thought that we're not real or they thought, come back to us when you have a product. That was some people's mentality. People are people.

One guy wrote pie in the sky.

to write something on the internet. That's what I found.

But at the same time, those are the people who I want. Those are the people who are frustrated the most. Those are the people who I believe when we eventually launch will become our most advocate customers. Hopefully. Yeah, hopefully.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35.662)
Hope. Hope.

Just I've been around the internet for a long time and you start seeing that there's a lot of people no matter what you put out I'm lucky haven't had a lot of negative feedback. Yeah on the internet, but you look at Lex Friedman Lex Friedman's a great example where Sure Well people love him, but you see that some people doubt him and he takes that into account and one of the things is what whatever you think of him I

the world.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50.433)
People love him.

start to see.

Yeah.

You

Speaker 3 (01:09:01.622)
you

take them into account.

with Joe Ruggiero.

You know they were having a conversation because Lex Friedman was kind of saying something about You know all the all of the naysayers. Mm-hmm, and he was saying you know Rogan's so big now that you know he's he's he's massive everybody knows him so some people like reading the comments and sometimes You you have to read them, but you also have to take them with a grain of salt because you start realizing Some people don't have anything going on in their lives

Cogger.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15.797)
Joe.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31.054)
Some people are just bored.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35.002)
And sometimes, you know, people just, they just want to troll. That's just, you know, it's just when, when it's so go on the internet and say, Hey, you know, your, thing isn't going to work. exactly. that's usually what ends up happening. I'm lucky I haven't had, you know, I don't run a big podcast, but still, you know, people.

easy to

Speaker 1 (01:09:45.496)
Goes back to you never know what someone's going through.

Bye.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55.192)
People are people.

Some people are gonna be nice. You would hope that they're nice some people, know They're not gonna be so nice sure and I understand as I grow not everybody's gonna agree with some of the things that I say and that's okay, you know, Not letting that get to you as well too But you also do have to Read into you know, some of the things that they're saying cuz yeah, you might never know they might be a big advocate for your company and You know that might be one of your biggest supporters down the road

but it's also.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23.246)
You know, EMG, as your medical group, we're just trying to help people. Yeah. bringing a product to market. Maybe we launched our marketing campaign too soon. Maybe we didn't. Exactly. You take with a grain of salt and eventually you just have to run. And people are going to say what they're going to say. And you just, you know, you're just like, OK, heard. know, exactly. But end of the day, you just keep going.

It doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43.278)
exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52.288)
Exactly. that's what life's all about. Right. Stay positive, optimistic. Things are always going to be better. And you try to come.

How much time you got?

I got time. I got time. I got time.

Because I'm enjoying this conversation, man, I really am, because...

it hope no no no listener

Speaker 1 (01:11:09.856)
I don't want to go too long.

Listen man, I've had one time I had an episode where and I will always give a shout out to this guy. Dr. Roy Hill. He was my therapist in Colorado. He helped me out even though he wasn't supposed to, you know, but he was those people that genuinely cared about his patients, about people in general. The guy that did a lot of research on the near death experience. I'm actually going to have him on sometime next week.

Air.

huge

Speaker 2 (01:11:41.452)
So I'm excited for that conversation. But, when I went to him, I was depressed. I was at the lowest point in my life. can honestly say I was at the lowest point in my life. started having all these panic attacks. I thought I was going to die all the time. thought life wasn't worth it. And this guy, he helped me. It came to the point where, know, I didn't really need therapy anymore because I was okay. All the techniques and all the different conversations I had with him, they worked.

really

Speaker 2 (01:12:08.774)
So that's why I'm always a huge advocate for therapy. But anyways, he He's like, how can I help you with the podcast? And I was like realistically I just need people you know, I need people to interview so He gave me this book about this past who went to prison back in the 90s or the 80s or I forget exactly when And he's like read his book I'll get you in contact with him and you guys go on from there. So I wrote

E.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23.822)
who

Speaker 3 (01:12:36.622)
this book it was a

Plain Vanilla Rapper, that's what the book was called. Very basic book, you know, he talked about his life, talked about going to prison, keeping his faith, and becoming a pastor after that. He went to prison for fraud, essentially. I he was selling like vacuums, and then he was telling people that, or I guess he was telling the government that he was selling a lot more than he actually was. anyways, long story short, it came to the point where, you know, we had to do an interview.

story short.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06.002)
Are not an interview conversation. That's what I love calling it I Went to his house around 2 o'clock and I didn't leave his house until 9 at night So that was my longest at the longest episode I've ever recorded we talked for about five hours, you know It was probably I think like a two Conversation that I was like, I can't release five hours all in one so I spread it all out but yeah, you know it

clock.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21.39)
was a-

Speaker 3 (01:13:26.818)
or three part.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35.246)
It conversation

like this, you they don't happen all the time and they're beautiful man. There it's like when I when I'm when me and Mario sit down we don't know what we're gonna talk about but it ends up being a 40 minute an hour long conversation and you know, we Talk about you know the things in life the things that you know, we're going through whatever it might be. So yeah, you know it I have a little bit of time but

Do you any-

Do you have an inspiration?

Yeah, I do. You know, I...

Speaker 1 (01:14:04.14)
To start this?

I talk a lot. think that's just who I am as a person. It's funny because I used to be somewhat of a shy kid growing up. Um, but when I was with my friends, I just would talk about anything. It's funny. So at school, would, the teachers will always like, I would talk to whoever knew whoever was next to me. grew up in a small town. Um, knew everybody. So

just that's

Speaker 3 (01:14:25.674)
always

Speaker 3 (01:14:29.678)
because I

Speaker 3 (01:14:33.806)
So I pretty much.

If they put me in one spot, I would talk to that person. So I would gap their year off, blah, blah. The teacher would get mad. She would move me somewhere else. Guess what? I knew the person I was sitting next to anyway, so I would gap their year off. And the next thing you know, she would move me somewhere else. Same exact thing. So a lot of times I had to be by myself just because, you know, and I hated that. I hated being by myself because I noticed that when I'm around people, I'm a person. I'm just naturally, that's just.

better person.

Naturally who I am as a person so I was growing up And that I had my own radio show and I would just talk And it wasn't two years down the road. So in my early 20s, I wanted to be a boxer That was my thing. I went to Colorado to try to do it didn't work out But you know life worked out the way it needed to At that time I was listening to a lot of podcasts Lex Friedman. I love listening to Joey Diaz because he's from New Jersey

When I would pretend.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34.094)
so just, that was my thing during COVID, a lot of podcasts, you know, there wasn't much to do. I can do this. You know, this, they're not really saying anything special, you know, they're just talking. Let me just do it. You know? So one day I just made my podcast and it's funny how I was, it's funny how things work. I was trying to find a name. was like, what am going to name this thing? And it was in my room.

Sounds like a

Speaker 2 (01:16:03.904)
And all of a sudden this bright light, this just, you can see it from outside. I had curtains and still this, this light was so bright that was like penetrating the curtains and it just popped to me. I was like a light in the world. So was like, I'm just going to name it a light in the world. So. Podcast didn't touch it for about four months and then it just clicked. You know, I had everything ready, trademarked and everything. and then it just clicked.

started the

Speaker 2 (01:16:31.616)
And I just started making episodes. just started talking on the mic by myself. And then it started to grow slowly. Nothing extravagant, but I saw the numbers slowly slowly going. An episode would get like five downloads and then 10, then 15. Some of them were like at 50 at some point. And I was like, okay, cool. This is a start.

This. Yeah, yeah, the slow.

What did your

Only, know, like, you know, in a matter of a couple months. but one of the things with podcasts, but a lot of people, I guess they know, but they don't know is being consistent. That's the biggest thing with podcasting is, sure. You're to have low numbers.

Fur.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22.254)
I don't know, a year, two, three, four years maybe, but then it's gonna explode. That's just how it happens. That's how, the way you grow in podcasts is you go onto another podcast. For me...

I would like to do that, but it has to be kind of the right podcast. I guess when I have a guest on it has to be the right guest. You know, we're not going to sit here and talk about football, you know, and I don't know, a PlayStation, you know, we can't talk about that. I don't mind, but you know, it excite me like, like I had this TV. I barely turned this thing on. You know, I have all these games. I don't really play them because it doesn't excite me anymore.

It's like

Speaker 3 (01:17:56.174)
It doesn't

Speaker 2 (01:18:06.05)
This is what excites me conversations getting to know somebody knowing why you started your company knowing why this thing is important to you and it's funny now because The podcast has been on a little back burner lately just because like I said our schedule doesn't align but now people are like Hey, can I be on and I felt bad at one point especially with you because I'm like, I'm so busy with life But I'm like, no, you know what?

Like I said, the

Speaker 2 (01:18:34.722)
made you a promise we have to get this we have to get you on and it's funny that that happened because now other people want to be on and that's how you start with anything you know you start with one person then you start with two next you know other people are starting to realize next thing you know it's now five people wanted to be on I get emails you know for certain companies they're like hey you know can we do things together some of those you have you don't want to be bought out you can

be very careful because

you'll earn a little bit of money, but then this isn't mine anymore. So that's kind of a promise I told me in Mario where it's like, it's going to be us, you know, no matter where we go, no matter, you know, this thing is going to be ours. It's not going to be owned by someone else because we never want to limit what is being said here, you know? So that's kind of where this started because same thing with it's like, like with you, it's like, I want to help people.

And we all have talents that God gives us and it's how we use those talents. Me, I just naturally talk. So that's my gift to the world to give to this world. Try to make it better. know, just as the same gift that you have. You're giving it to the world as well too. You you're not holding on to that gift. You can if you want. You can hold all that information in your hand. But what is that gonna do? You know, it's...

to do.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57.55)
your head.

It's not gonna do anything. Same thing with me. I have all these good conversations. Let's pick up two mics and talk about these conversations that we talk about. Me and Mario, we love talking about history. We love talking about what's going on in Ukraine because those are conversations that we're interested in and I feel like they're important. Mario thinks that they're important as well too. that's...

That's why this is... That's why this is...

this, if that makes any sense. But yeah, that's kind of my very long-term thing. It's not something that I don't care that it's small right now because let's enjoy it that it's small right now because down the road, it's not gonna be small and we're not gonna have the time that we have now to put as much energy into it. In the future, it's gonna be more serious conversations.

This is

Speaker 2 (01:20:54.284)
You know, now we can sit down and talk, yes, have the series conversations, but you know, like if we want to have a couple of drinks, let's do it without being criticized. because we can do that now. Let's say some of the silly things that we say now, because in the future, not that we have to hold what we say, but you know, people are going to look up to us and we have to carry ourselves. Look at Joe Rogan when he first started and you look at him now, it's a completely different Joe Rogan.

a certain way you think it'll...

Speaker 2 (01:21:24.738)
You know, he has more serious conversations. Of course he has a silly conversations now, but he holds himself to a very, he knows that his platform is important. So what he says can damage him or it can't damn or it'll help him or it'll help the world as well too. So, you know, it, it, that's why, that's why we're at right now. So that's why I'm not worried about growing or making sure this, you know, hits or anything, because the people that we have on now,

are a very dedicated few people and you know in the future, you know, it's gonna be a lot bigger so, you know

Yeah.

But-

What about you man? Outside of work, what do you like to do? What you know, do you occupy yourself with outside of work?

Speaker 3 (01:22:09.486)
What are you?

Speaker 1 (01:22:19.054)
Well, my family, the QMeek company, they're in Los Angeles. Yes, correct. My friends in Phoenix.

And you're in Phoenix now, right?

Speaker 1 (01:22:34.838)
Yeah, but it's, be honest, it's hard to imagine because I do work a lot. I don't think about that so much. I've, I've the same friends I have in Los Angeles are the same friends I had when I was in kindergarten. Same thing. this day. Yeah. You know, they're still, we're all close. It's like a brotherhood and, they keep me company and they're really, really great people. And I'm very thankful for them because not everyone has friends like that.

Yeah, and that's all.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49.038)
Same thing with me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05.621)
So when you find good people, as Mara and I were talking about earlier, you try to surround yourself with good people. I think that's key.

You have to.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14.232)
Do you keep up with what's going on in the world?

Well, have to be I have to be I have to acknowledge. I have to acknowledge what's going on around the world. I have to be observant, but I don't I don't.

Okay, no worries. Later Mark.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37.784)
go that much depth into it because it'll serve as a distraction. But I have to be aware. have to be aware of what's going on around the world. People's perspectives and how that might affect EMG and how that might affect myself and my family and my friends. But I try not to go too deep into it because again, everyone has a different perspective. know, there's a lot of sides to

Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06.966)
There's two sides to a coin, right? So it's critical that, you know, Jordan said what I sell sneakers to, you know, Michael Jordan said, still sneakers to Republicans and Democrats. One of my shoes. So I try to make sure that doesn't, I don't care if you're left, right, race, ethnicity, gender doesn't matter to me. You know, I'm going to try to help as many people as I can.

That's the same way I...

I view the world as well too. You do have to... Yeah, do have to acknowledge what's going outside because... Exactly. I... Very... You know, they focus so much of their time on politics and what's going on in the world and... It's you. You know, there's a lot of... My thing is... What can I fix?

acknowledge.

It doesn't have to control you.

Speaker 3 (01:24:45.934)
feel like a lot of people are.

Speaker 3 (01:24:55.23)
It distracts a of.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02.982)
And usually those things that I can't fix what's going on in Ukraine and Russia. The only thing I can do be observant of what's going on over there. I can't fix what's going on in Europe, whatever problems they're having. I can't even fix the things that are going on around in Tucson. The only thing I can fix is what's right in front of me. And that's one of the biggest things I try to tell people. I was having this conversation during the elections and not to get too much into it, but

is

Speaker 2 (01:25:33.486)
A couple of my coworkers were so focused on what's going on and I was like, it doesn't really bother me. Whether who wins, Democrat, Republican, right, left, middle, it doesn't bother me. I don't consider myself a political anymore. I used to when I was younger, but now it doesn't phase me because then you start seeing friendships that are broken and there's more important things that are going on in the world that we can't fix.

So.

Speaker 3 (01:25:48.81)
person.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56.96)
these things.

Speaker 3 (01:26:02.158)
like.

Yeah. One of my biggest inspirations, Dr. Keith Joyner, he was the professor for my healthcare economics class. know, I started to learn about the system and he said to me, Chris, people want health, not healthcare. What did that tell me? I said, people want to feel better. People don't care so much about the product so much as how they, how it makes them feel. Yeah. And.

Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:26:33.07)
That's the kind of mentality that I try to take everywhere. Because he, big inspiration. I think he's still at the University of Arizona. I want to say he is. But he was really instrumental in inspiring me to do this at a younger age. 29 now.

Those people are the same thing with me, like with Dr.

You'll come across people like this in your life. They're smart, know, very, very smart people. like I said, some of the things that they say, they impact you in such a great way where it's like, simple. And that's how you know they're, they're,

Cross.

Speaker 3 (01:27:02.158)
server.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13.006)
Good people, cuz.

Like you said, health.

It's so vague, but you look around and that's really what people want. You know, just to be healthy, being able to live, being able to enjoy. Exactly. You know, sometimes we take our health for granted.

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:33.88)
We do. So that's why...

100%.

You know, even in just that sector in itself, you're not worried about the profits. It's an important thing, but you're more worried about the individual and making sure that they get the help that they need.

I'm sure the thing

Speaker 3 (01:27:48.492)
Sir.

as many people as possible. don't worry about that kind of stuff. I mean, I know it's there. acknowledge it. It's my job to acknowledge it. my job. It's my job to, but you know, know what's there and know how to navigate it. But I'm not focused on that. My focus is on the customers. My focus is on, you know, my team, my focus is on, the people, you know, and society and making sure that I can contribute positively to

in a society and making sure that I can leave it better than when I entered it. For me, as an entrepreneur, that's all we try to do. That's all any entrepreneur tries to do is leave the world better off than when they found it.

And I wish more people that way too. Sure. Because.

whole thought.

Speaker 3 (01:28:38.648)
What?

takes a lot of pain, you know.

It It does because the things I know

And one of the same thing with me, you know, that's that's way I try to leave this world is try to make it a better place than when I saw it and sometimes it's this motivating because you look at all the work that you're doing and then you're like, this isn't enough but it's all you can do, you know, you only have two hands of course, you know, you wish that the world can be better and I think it is it's gonna be better

3

Speaker 1 (01:29:09.134)
The better, have to make it so.

Exactly, having that mindset where it's like it doesn't take one person it's gonna take a lot of people with that same mindset to try to make this world better because You know is going right now. It's not it's not It's it's not going in a good way It can be very sad seeing all these wars and all these different things going on And of course, you know you wish you can do something about it, but you can't

Realistically, we look at how the world is.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40.31)
You know and like you have to try to leave it in a better way that you can Who knows, you know the person That you're helping out they might have a good idea for whatever it might be and it might impact It's a triple effect, you know, you do something kind someone else is gonna do that too But you do it with hate it's gonna be done the same way as well, so it can be hard, know, it can be dis motivating sometimes but then you're like Well, one of the biggest things that I found out is if you have a pure heart

you said.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10.048)
It all comes back to you. Not in the way that you expect it. It might not be with a mansion and four Ferraris. That might happen, yeah, sure, it's gonna come back in a way where you least expect it. might be family, friends, making sure that you're secure in life, making sure that the product you actually have is actually helping people, and that all comes together.

Yeah.

But where can people work and people product as well to?

people find

Sure, they can email me directly at cpa, c-p-a-l-l-e-t at emg-devices.com. Feel free to email me. They can also visit our website at www.emg-devices.com. Fill out some of the questionnaires on the bottom of our main pages. That could also reach out to me as well. But other than that, you know...

Speaker 1 (01:31:08.174)
Thank you so much again, George, for having me as a guest. And you know, it's been fantastic talking to you, but we go way back. Oh And I'm excited to see what you do with it. I appreciate it.

And I know this is. Sure. yeah. yeah. I have to take a trip. Bored you.

gonna be the only time.

Sure, if you want me back.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23.851)
No, no, no, no, no, no, at all. This I live for these conversations, man, because you from the outside.

Like I said, I

look at it.

what this really is.

Cinderella story, you know It's a story where you know You guys didn't have that much and then look at where you're at now and not that it's important But you know you guys are gonna grow in the future as well, too You know, it's naturally just gonna happen and it's gonna happen because it's a It's designed or what be it's because you know, is you know what you're putting out there, you know And I think that's one of the biggest things is that I try to tell people is you know

Speaker 3 (01:31:49.698)
the way.

it might be because you what your heart

Speaker 2 (01:32:02.19)
Don't be a doctor because of what doctors make. Be a doctor because it's something you enjoy or be a firefighter. it because you really want to do it.

whatever the profession or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15.414)
Anything I can do to help the medical community, I will absolutely try to do. No matter what, no matter if it's with my company, outside of my company, I'm always going to patient out, positive patient outcomes and the needs of the community first. Like that's who I am. It's my job. Any company, any company that, that, that's, that's a whole reason why they exist.

And that's a beautiful thing,

I

Speaker 1 (01:32:45.016)
You know? cool. All right. Thank you so much.

Well, this probably getting closer and.

Thank you so much Chris. We'll have you on again when, you know, time we'll just talk about just life. Thanks Chris.

Yeah

Earth? Stu-

Speaker 1 (01:32:58.38)
Yeah. Thank you.